saggy celing

[jeff_1064]

house is a 1950's handyman's special...the ceiling in the living room is sagging about 6" if you were to measure the difference in height from the supporting wall and then in the center of the room. the materials that have been used are 2x12's then plaster/ lath then furing strips then 12 x12 fiberglass tile...the span is about 20 - 24' (not sure...b/c it is a house i am thinking of buying and I didn't get a measurement)

If i strip all of the material off...can I jack the ceiling back up in the center and attach a 2x4 to the truss in the attic so it holds it "semi" straight again?

[backpacker85]

I'm guessing from your proposed answer that this is a single story house (at least over this room)?

If the unsupported span is actually 20' - 24' and the ceiling joists are single 2x12's, it would explain the sagging, especially with the weight of the plaster/lathe/fiberglass hanging from it.

I wouldn't want to hang these joists from the roof structure, only because the roof framing is probably just as minimal as the ceiling, and you may end up sagging the roof as well as the ceiling.

Your best bet may be to strip the ceiling, temporarily jack the ceiling up level, and add a new 2x12 sistered to the side of each existing one.

Depending on the location and orientation of the bearing walls, it may also be possible to build a new beam on the TOP side of the ceiling joists, supported by bearing walls, and strap the ceiling joists to the new beam.

Bottom line, however, is that no matter what the problem is, it can be fixed; it will just be a matter of how much time/effort/$$ you feel it's worth.

First thing I would do is have a good inspector and/or framing carpenter look at it to give you some options.

[Hellrazor]

Option 1: Jacking up that ceiling will not be easy. Its 60 year old wood which is nearly petrified by now. You would have to slowly jack the joists up, maybe 1/4" a shot or you will risk all kinds of problems with the rest of the framing. 6" is an awful lot to fix.

Option 2: If you are worried more so with the looks of the ceiling. You COULD frame a false ceiling a bit lower and go from there. You could even incorperate a weight bearing header into the false ceiling to prevent the old joists from sagging any more.

Option 3: If you are going to strip everything, you might as well just replace the joists with something up to the job. I know people will cringe hearing that, but it might be easier to fix the problem in that manner.

Depending where you live, you might need a permit for this. A codes enforcement officer might have a good idea of what they would do in a case like this.

Good luck, old houses can be a PITA.

[TheRic]

I agree the wood might not want to be straightened out.
Either fixing it by taking out the old, and putting in the correct new joists,
OR false ceiling.

For the false ceiling, instead of framing a new ceiling, you could put a drop down ceiling in.

[backpacker85]

Good point on the jacking issue, Hellrazor. I've seen it done carelessly (too quickly) and the joists (and rafters) lifted off the walls before the sag went away

The false ceiling is a good remedy for the aesthetics, but I would still do something to stabilize the existing ceiling joists (carrier beam or sister joists). While it takes a lot of effort to reduce the 6" sag, there is nothing stopping the 6" to keep increasing (until the tops of the walls get drawn in).

May not be a bad idea to check the walls anyway.....6" is a lot of sag!!

[Ed62]

If it were mine, I'd forget about the dropped ceiling. As was mentioned, a 6" sag is a *lot*, and nothing says it won't get worse, causing a lot more problems. Do the right thing, and replace the joists. Your building codes will tell you what the minimum joist size is for the span. Also check the weight bearing properties for different species of lumber.

Ed