Roofing nails for joist hangers?

[messmaker]

Can you use roofing nails. I have nearly 2 full boxes from other projects. Is there much danger on a 36" high deck.I have a box of deck screws as well but I have been told that using screws is a bad idea due to shear issues.

[MikeMcCoy]

They are not structural nails and the deck can literally fall apart if the nail heads pop off or the nail shafts shear off.

[91FE]

NO NO NO...Absolutely not! The hanger manufacturer will call for the exact size and length of nails to use.

[sacherjj]

I will add to the NOOOOO! Roofing nails are junky metal. I use the galvanized joist hanger nails. THey are usually right near the hangers. They are basically shot 8D nails, so they won't go through a 2x piece of lumber.

[messmaker]

I get the message. I don't really understand though. The joist sit on the beam and that is where most of the structural support is. The joist hangers tie it all together but the main job as I see it is to keep the joist from twisting and to rim or header board stable. I would think that on a 12' board you have upward to 100 nails and probably 2 angle brackets. That seems like overkill no matter what the fastener. What am I missing?

[newbie2wood]

On a deck, the 2x6's are placed on their "edge" on the girders. The girders provide the support. The joist/rim hangers and girder anchors prevent the movement or shifting of the 2x6. Roofing nails are too short and too soft.
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E CIGARETTE SHOP

[91FE]

I get the message. I don't really understand though. The joist sit on the beam and that is where most of the structural support is...

True, the joists sit on the beam...on the outside on the deck. But, they usually hang from the ledger that is bolted to the house on the inside. Roofing nails just can't handle the shear stress. I believe Simpson Strong Tie calls for 3-1/2" 16d hot dipped galvanized nails to be double-shear nailed through their joist hangers...filling every hole. The little guys (1-1/2" 8d's called N-8's or something) are for light-duty odd connections... like strapping and rafter ties. I don't think they're normally used on hangers because you're normally nailing through more than 1-1/2".

[Hellrazor]

You *must* use joist hanger nails. Do this for a test. Put the tip of a roofing nail and a joist hanger nail in a vice and try to bend them with a pair of pliers. Screws are also unnacceptable for hangers since they do not have the shear strength of a nail.

As far as overkill, probably is, but you read about too many deck collapses every year. Code calls for joist hanger nails. Yes they are more expensive then roofers, but they are also rated for structural use. Will your deck get inspected? Will you sell your house any time soon? Either way an inspector finds these and you will have to fix the issue. I always look at it this way, do it right the first time.

[messmaker]

OK, I understand the the shear concern when you have a ledger board. The joist hangers are the point of connection as well as support. This is not the case with an island deck or a swimming pool deck(which I am building). I don't see where the shear force would come from. The end of a railing could cause a lot of force if it were not supported and just bolted to the rim but that seems like a design problem and is a lot to ask of any nail. I will follow code and use the proper nail since it is the right way but I still don't buy it.

[messmaker]

I will have one header board against a fence and the other will be next to a pool. I thought I would use hangers because of space constraints. How would you go about it?

[messmaker]

I thought code required them to be used.I have space concerns on each end(pool and fence).What are the other options?

[DaveS]

Ahh.... I think I see the problem - we have a terminology issue.

This is a joist hanger:



I think the devices messmaker is describing are more like "straps".

[messmaker]

No. I don't mean to be confusing but thats the guy. I will be putting them on the header board on each end of fifteen 10' joist and will end-nail the outside plus will use an angle connector where it meets the rim joist.Am I making sense?

[DaveS]

No. I don't mean to be confusing but thats the guy. I will be putting them on the header board on each end of fifteen 10' joist and will end-nail the outside plus will use an angle connector where it meets the rim joist.Am I making sense?

ooooooh.... I get it now. You want to put a header board on, but you don't have room to get the nails in the other side - because it is butted against a pool, so you are going to use joist hangers.

Well, I'd talk to the local building inspector, I'm not sure you need a header board.

I think if you just put bridging (?) in between each joist, near the end of the joist, it would be just fine, perhaps even more effective. What I mean by bridging is just pieces of wood the same size as the joists, cut to fit the joist spacing, nailed in from both sides of the joist. Stagger them from joist to joist so you can get the framing nailer in there.

In this configuration, I most likely would not have used a joist on beam design, I would have probably used a rim joist. One of the main advantages of using a joist on beam is that you can let the ends of the joists hang wild on the beam, and then space them and cut them to length after they are all up (and all your help has gone home).

In this case, you are incurring all the pain in the butt with regard to cutting each joist to the exact required length, and placing and nailing a joist hanger in exactly the right position on the header. In addition, you are using one length of lumber extra.

(unless of course, you already cut the joists to length, then my point is moot)

Now that I understand what you are trying to do - I understand your argument about not incurring enough weight to need the joist hanger nails. I would still use hanger nails, even if I felt the roofing nails were strong enough, because if an inspector sees them, he/she will make you pull them out and put in hanger nails - and regardless of whether you are right, they will make you replace them.