a question on removal of lino and underfloor

[rickd]

hi,

i am going to be installing a ceramic tile floor in our kitchen sometime in the near future. after doing a lot of research, i have decided to remove the existing linoleum and the 3/8" particle board underlyment leaving the plywood sub-floor exposed. then, i plan to install 1/4" - 3' x 5' hardibacker (cement)boards to the sub-floor, which should provide a good, solid surface, and then install the tiles on that.

i have a "what is the best way" question with respect to removing the lino & floor in my kitchen. here's the problem: there is an "island" in the middle of the kitchen - it, of course, sits right on top of the flooring i want to remove. unlike the flooring that butts up against the walls of the kitchen and is easy to rip out, this flooring goes right "under" the island.

when i am ripping up the flooring, what is the best way to proceed when the flooring begins to go under the island? i have to cut away and remove the floor up to, but not under, the island. is there some kind of saw or tool that will allow me to cut a clean edge around the exterior of the island while leaving the rest of the floor under the island completely intact?

i'm not sure how to go about this - any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

[AlanJ]

Rick,
Does the island have a kickboard all the way around the bottom, or do the sides extend all the way to the floor?

If it has a kickboard, I would investigate whether you can remove this without damaging the structure. If you can, you've then got a bit of room to make a close-ish cut in the sub-floor, without having to be exactly along the edge. When the tiles are installed, just add a nice new kickdboard and you're done.

[cgallery]

You need a Crain toe-kick saw:

http://www.craintools.com/fs-specialtysaws.html

I used one of these and it worked wonderfully. I purchased it from Coastal Tool and when I was done I sold it on eBay and effectively "rented" the unit for about $10 (my loss when selling it).

Thanks!
Phil

[rickd]

hi,

phil and alan, thank you both for your prompt replies. alan, i checked for a kickboard but for most of the island the cabinet goes right to the floor, so that was a good idea, but in my case it won't work.

phil, i checked out the toekick saw and that definitely seems to be what i need - i didn't even know there was such a thing. according to the description, it should do exactly what i need to do.

by the way, someone else suggested that i should just move the island. try moving this:



that's a 12' x 4.5' hunk of solid granite on top of that island - it ain't goin' anywhere

thanks again for your help.

[just4funsies]

Plus, it's a perfect excuse.. er... REASON to buy a new tool!

[DaveW]

Any thoughts to just leaving the linoleum alone? My FIL does this stuff a lot, and he says most people just leave it alone.

[rickd]

Any thoughts to just leaving the linoleum alone? My FIL does this stuff a lot, and he says most people just leave it alone.

dave,

the short answer to your question? yes!! the more i look into the idea of ceramic tile, the more problems and potential problems i run into. at dinner tonight i mentioned to the LOML that maybe we should reconsider ceramic tile and to my utter amazement, she said - sure!! i'm going to take that as a definite yes. i didn't even mention here the other issue about heating the ceramic tiles either - another can of worms.

so, i think i'm off the hook - back to woodworking again - yippee!!

[JimD]

I don't want to talk you into anything but you could also just trim against the island with a handsaw. Low tech and it would take a little while but it will work. If you are careful, you could also use a reciprocating saw. You would cut into the plywood at least a little but that doesn't have to be a big deal. To be extra careful, you could start with the recip and finish with a handsaw. You want to put some tape or something on the island so it won't be damaged. A quarter round (shoe) moulding can cover a little bit raged joint.

I put ceramic in our last house to replace a vinyl floor. I took the vinyl up with an old iron and left both layers of subfloor in place. Your idea of pulling up the particle board is a good one, however. Concrete board is a great base but I would use 1/2 if possible. I put our tile directly over the two layers of subflooring and it worked fine. I used both epoxy and latex modified thinset. Both worked.

Jim

[Lee4847]

Been there..

A couple of years ago I Pulled up three layers of vinal and the 3/8 ply. I had the same problem with all the cabinets. I found a little 1 inch saw for the dremmel. Needless to say that took a while but it got the job done.

I deffinately agree that you should consider 1/2 backer. I was down to 1/2 subfloor and glued the backer and used 2 inch deck screws. Before the floor had squeeked and was soft in places. The bonding of the two and the tile on top cured that.

Also you might want to consider those heating mats that go between the backer and tile. Keeps the feet warm on a cold winters night.

Lee

[LinuxRandal]

Make sure you know your flooring materials!

The last time I looked for some, there were only 3 companies in the USA that still made Linoleum flooring. The reason was they had to change the mix, Linoleum flooring contained Asbestos. Vinyl does not. The new stuff (hard to find) does not. If it really is Linoleum, wear a respirator.

[rickd]

The last time I looked for some, there were only 3 companies in the USA that still made Linoleum flooring. The reason was they had to change the mix, Linoleum flooring contained Asbestos. Vinyl does not. The new stuff (hard to find) does not. If it really is Linoleum, wear a respirator.

hi,

thanks for the reminder! i used the term 'linoleum' probably out of habit, in fact, my existing floor is vinyl - but, i'll double check for sure. the floor is only 10 years old so i'm sure asbestos is no problem since asbestos hasn't been used for floors, that i know of anyway, since before 1980.

[jziegler]

The last time I looked for some, there were only 3 companies in the USA that still made Linoleum flooring. The reason was they had to change the mix, Linoleum flooring contained Asbestos. Vinyl does not. The new stuff (hard to find) does not. If it really is Linoleum, wear a respirator.

I thought that the true linoleum didn't have the asbestos, but some of the adhesives did. And certainly some early vinyl did have asbestos. In general, I just try to avoid dealing with the stuff.

Rick, you might consider looking into some of the high end vinyls on the market right now. Both Mannington Mills (my personal choice, their plant is right outside of the town where I live and they and the family that own the company are very good to the community) and Congoleum have some vinyl products that look much like stone or ceramic. I have a co-worker that had the congoleum installed recently and is very happy with it. I will likely be getting the kitchen done with the Mannington Adura in the next few months. Both are installable over old vinyl in most cases. Check out a local dealer if you can. Armstrong has some pretty nice stuff out too.

Jim

[Hoyden]

Thats a great Island.
You will probably need to trim (toe kick)around the entire island with either vinyl or tile as they will both leave an edge line. My Brother installs tile for a living and he uses 1/4 over the old vinyl and thinsets the backer to the old vinyl and then tiles over that. However you proceed best wishes for you project.