Electrical Question

[Woody]

My house has a GE Power Gold 200 amp breaker panel that I want to add some breakers to. I took off the panel and discovered that there is not a seperate ground bus. The neutrals and grounds are connected to the same two busses. Am I seeing this correct? I was going to wire my new breakers in the same but wanted to make sure.

[thestinker]

Hmmm. I'm not a electrician, but dad is, and I have spent A LOT of time working with him. I have even wired houses by my self before. It sounds like you have an older pannel and wiring job (as do I). The ground and neutral are split on the main lugs, but when it comes inside the house to your pannel, they put them on the same bar. None of my stuff is grounded and I bet yours is the same way.

[Tom Slick]

if that is your main CB panel then yes it is correct for neutral and ground to be connected to the same bus.

[LJR]

At the main breaker panel in a typical residential installation the grounded (neutral) and grounding (green or bare) wires are connected to the same electrical point. Land all the "neutral" wires on one buss and all the "ground" wires on a separate buss. Yes, they are the same point electrically, but we're after redundancy here for safety's sake.

A sub panel set after that main panel will have the "neutral" and "ground" separated and isolated from each other.

[JimD]

I think my house in Pennsylvania was wired the way you describe and my current house has the neutral isolated from the ground. I believe the difference is how the electric utility hooks up the transformer that feeds you house.

Wiring it the way that the professional who wired you house originally is almost always the best bet. If you are in doubt, ask to look at a neighbors panel. I would only do this if I found other wiring mistakes and wanted to make sure. If you wanted to change things, you would need to change the whole panel which means pulling the meter. You could pull it but the utility will not put it back until an electrician checks the wiring (and nobody is going to be real happy with you pulling it - including your family).

Jim

[Hellrazor]

Neutral and ground is only split in subpanels, they are bonded together in the main panels.

[430752]

huh?

What's a ground wire? with armored cable its idiot proof!

(okay, I have snuck in two romex circuits and then I ran the ground to the neutral bar. everything tests okay.)

You can tell if its grounded by following heh grounding straps - where they're hooked up to. My two are both to the grounding bus, one each side of a 200A panel (although, the two sidea are connected, so dunno what diff it makes), each going to separate direction outside of the house.

curt j.

[Kristofor]

Neutral and ground is only split in subpanels, they are bonded together in the main panels.

Yep, but I guess the confusion comes in some places where there's a separate main cut-off so the "Main" panel is really wired like a sub. The important part is just to have them bonded in only a single location.

Kristofor.

[Woody]

Thanks

It is my main CB panel and I have checked with an electrician friend. it is very common in the area I live in to wire a home like this since they are the same electrically. Thanks again for everyone's input.

[lssm37]

Main Entry Panel Wiring

That is the correct wiring for a main breaker panel Neutral and Ground are tied together. And that gound bus should probably also be tied to a driven ground rod with a large bare copper wire either outside or inside your house.

[Stick]

What's a ground wire? with armored cable its idiot proof!
curt j.

Using the armor itself as a ground has been illegal here for much longer than I've been in the trade (30 years). The old armored cable with the aluminum ground strip is too. That stuff went out not long after knob & tube wiring. Still legal for existing installations, but for anything added or new, gotta have a seperate grounding conductor....always!

Check a code book, I'd lay money that it's like that in the NEC too.

[scorrpio]

Indeed. I believe that armored cable issue is same as galvanized steel pipe issue - they eventually rust through and cause ground faults.

Sometimes, main panel will have seemingly separate ground and neutral busses - but they are likely still connected further up the line - like at the meter. In my house, which was upgraded to a larger service about 5 years ago, there is not even a pretense of keeping them separate - ground and neutral of same wire are connected to bus holes right next to each other. But my shop panel has those buses separated, and I took care to connect neutrals and grounds to their own bars, with no mixing.

[Hellrazor]

We use armored cable at work all the time, but it still has a ground wire. I do not think ungrounded is legal in residential use.