Shut off valve

[blowboat]

I am in the process of doing some floor repairs in the bathroom. I have removed the toilet for easier access. The shut-off valve for the water supply to the toilet has a small but persistent leak. Do these shut-off valves, oval shaped chrome handles, have washers on the end that can be replaced or do I need to replace the whole valve?

[jbalders]

Having just gone through this myself multiple times last week (I replaced two toilets and a sink -- all four valves leaked after I shut them off the first time), I'm willing to bet that it's leaking where the valve-stem comes out. Generally this means the packing is old and/or worn, and not sealing as well as it used to.

You have a few options. Less if it's a soldered (sweat) connection on the supply-side (where it goes into the wall)

1) Close the valve and try tightening the packing nut. Use two wrenches for this, one to hold the valve body, and one to turn the nut -- this way you won't stress the supply pipe and possibly cause more problems. Tightening the packing nut will compress the packing tighter against the valve stem and valve body. Sometimes this is all you need.

2) Replace the packing. Go to the BORG or Lowes (or whatever) and purchase some replacement teflon packing (it's just a string of teflon) -- it's usually with the knobs and washers and other small repair parts. Turn the main water valve off for the house, and relieve the pressure in the pipes (open a faucet) Take off the knob, and remove the packing nut (again using two wrenches) and clean off the old packing. Wind some of the new packing material around the valve stem, replace and tighten the nut and knob.

3) If you have a threaded pipe going into the valve, you can just replace the entire valve. If your valves are old, this might be a very good idea. Lowes seems to have a slightly better selection of replacement 1/4 turn valves than the BORG does. Same as before, turn off the main water valve, use a pipe wrench to hold the supply pipe this time, and remove the valve. Wrap some teflon tape around the pipe, put the new one on. This is amost easier than re-doing the packing.

4) If it's a compression fitting on the supply-side of the valve you may or may not be able to replace it. I would assume you can replace it, similar to #3 but I haven't done one, so I can't say for certain. I'd be afraid that the compression nut would deform the supply pipe slightly, and may never tighten correctly again. Maybe someone else can comment.

Jeff

[blowboat]

Thanks for your reply Jeff. This issue and discussion is made somewhat more difficult since this project is in my mother-in-laws house which is nearly four hours away. We are taking some time over the next couple of weekends to complete some repairs before she puts the house on the market to move up here.

I will certainly check in to the things you mention. If it were the valve-stem, would it be leaking from around the handle/stem or from the top of the supply line? What I seem to remember when we were there this past weekend and began this work is that the water was coming up through the supply line. I place a towel under it and tried to close the valve better--but it does not seem to have worked or the leak is actually as you describe. I will be going down tomorrow afternoon for a couple of days to try and fix it and do some painting.

Since I will be out of touch--as far as computers go--I am trying to get some ideas as to what might be the problem and/or solutions.

[lkazista]

4 hours away!!!!

Do yourself a favor, and just replace the valves. They only cost a couple of bucks each, and at least when you finish the install you will know that they work. If you try to 'patch' them together, you may spend all day working on it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Lee

[jbalders]

The valves I'm talking about should be shaped like an inverted T:

       fixture
          |
supply--valve--stem/knob

If it's leaking at the fixture outlet, the solution is generally to replace the line leading to the fixture. In addition to the line, you also want to replace any compression nuts and/or washers -- don't use the old ones or you'll be asking for trouble. The easiest solution here is to get one of those pre-made braided hoses. Second easiest is probably the PEX lines (easily cut and still reasonably flexible), and least easiest is the copper lines.

If it's leaking at the stem, it's probably the packing, as I mentioned in my previous post.

I agree with Lee, if it's possible, I'd replace the valve. However, if it's soldered on to the supply, that may be somewhere between difficult and impossible, depending on the conditions at the site and your knowledge of sweating pipes.

If it's threaded pipe, it's easy. My house was built in '57, and they used cast iron and threaded iron pipe everywhere, so replacing mine was a no-brainer. My guess is that iron pipe was probably common in this era, and before. If your MIL's house is newer or has had some remodeling done, it may be soldered (sweated) on.

If it's a compression it should be equally easy (in theory). I don't think I've ever actually seen a valve with compression fittings on the supply side in use, although I'm sure they're in use out there.

If you can replace it, I really like using the quarter turn valves. They work completely differently than the standard shutoff valves, and in theory should not be vulnerable to the packing-related issues I've mentioned. We'll see. My toilets were replaced with the standard valves, and my sink has the quarter turn ones. HD didn't have the size I needed, and I didn't visit Lowes until I was in the middle of working on the sink.

Jeff

[BobSch]

quote:Originally posted by blowboat

Thanks for your reply Jeff. This issue and discussion is made somewhat more difficult since this project is in my mother-in-laws house which is nearly four hours away. We are taking some time over the next couple of weekends to complete some repairs before she puts the house on the market to move up here.

If they're not soldered in, I'd just replace the valves. Had to do that not too long ago and while I was at it I added valves to the BR sink.

[JimD]

I think the shut-offs with compression nuts are the easiest to replace. You just loosen the nut on compression fitting and put the new nut on. If you get a bad seal, you can probably sand a little on the brass compression nut and it will be OK.

I would get a bag of everything you think you could possibly need and throw it in the car a day before you go. That gives you time to remember other stuff. HD and Lowes are so good about taking stuff you don't need back it doesn't pay to make a bunch of trips to the store.

I have had bad luck with braided hoses to toilets. Sometimes it causes the joint where the fill valve seals to the tank to tilt a little and leak. If you want to use one, I think it's best to get one that is very long and put a loop in it to avoid stressing the tank connection. The cheap old plastic line seems to work better for me most of the time. I would have these and a couple types of valves in the car plus plenty of tools. Maybe even a fill valve. All this stuff is cheap and gas isn't.

Last comment - if it only leaks when you turn the water off, I would not mess with it. If it leaks when the water is on, you need to mess with it. If these cheap shut-offs stop most of the mess when I'm replacing one of the working parts of a toilet, I consider that good enough.

Jim

[blowboat]

Leaky Valve Fixed

quote:Originally posted by jxyoung

Craftsman micro torque wrench $26 off. Now $48. 9/16 to 9/18

I would consider something else.
These do not have lifetime warranty, Husky@HD,and HF ones do. I have both and the Husky is better in 1/2" drive size due to 250