Seeking Table Saw Advice

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  • mpc
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2005
    • 979
    • Cypress, CA, USA.
    • BT3000 orig 13amp model

    #16
    Ryobi made a little brother to the BT3 saws, it's also sold as a Craftsman. If I remember correctly Ryobi called it "BTS21" or "BTS31" - something like that. The "BTS" series was not a little BT3 by any means; it was a big step down. Not recommended. If the current Craftsman 21828 is a BTS re-badge, avoid it.

    Since space/size is a major part of your criteria, instead of a saw on folding legs or a saw on a typical stand plus a mobile base, consider such a saw without the factory legs/folding base. Instead, build a small storage cabinet to support the saw and put wheels on that. You'll gain storage space in place of wasting that area with stands or whatnot. Such a cabinet also adds a little mass to the whole assembly reducing vibration and making the saw more stable when cutting big stuff.

    Another option to consider: besides a table saw, consider a good circular saw (with quality blades) and a "saw board" for cutting big/heavy sheet goods. With a saw board and a good saw blade, a circular saw can cut sheet goods down to size with quality cuts... and it can be easier (and safer) than trying to handle a heavy sheet on a small table saw. The "work table" for a saw board + circular saw is just a flat spot on the patio, garage floor, etc. with a few 2x4s supporting the workpiece and giving the saw blade clearance to the hard floor. To cut sheet goods on the table saw you typically need infeed and outfeed support tables and room in front of and behind the saw. I do it both ways: circ saw + saw board or my BT3000 with infeed & outfeed tables for plywood; I get good results either way.

    mpc
    Last edited by mpc; 05-17-2013, 12:01 AM.

    Comment

    • JimD
      Veteran Member
      • Feb 2003
      • 4187
      • Lexington, SC.

      #17
      I do not know the path from your storage shed to your carport but if it is not concrete then the wheels of the Rigid may not do you much good. The craftsman/Ryobi saw would be much easier to move over a yard than the Rigid due both to the wheels and the weight. If you need to move across a yard from storage to usage then I think the Craftsman/Ryobi is much more practical. It is also about as little as you can spend and expect it to last. Finding a used BT3000 or 3100 and making a box type base with wheels could also greatly reduce the cost.

      I agree with "mpc" but if you can possibly afford it, a track saw is much more accurate than a circular saw and homemade guide. If you will work a lot with sheet goods and keep joints simple for now (pocket screws, for instance are surprisingly strong and simple to execute) then you might even want to get the track saw first. I used my Milwaukee circular saw and a shoot board, homemade guide, for 20 years to break down sheet goods I would then cut to final size on my BT3100 (and a predecessor saw) with extension rails. I don't think I need the extension rails now that I have the track saw and I wish I'd bought it a long time ago. It is also very portable and would take up less space in storage. I bought the DeWalt with 106 and 56 inch rails from Amazon (my rail length may be a little off). It is easy to cut within 1/32 with the track saw. For most projects involving sheet goods, that works great. The track saw is useless to make a tenon joint, however, and not much use to rip down 1x material to make a face frame. So it would really be best to have both but if you could simplify projects for awhile, I think you could get a fair amount of things done without the table saw by using the tracksaw. A combination of a tracksaw and a BT3000/3100 would be great for a very wide range of projects. The Ryobi's limitations are mainly evident on the kind of things the tracsaw is good at.

      Jim

      Comment

      • woodturner
        Veteran Member
        • Jun 2008
        • 2047
        • Western Pennsylvania
        • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

        #18
        Originally posted by ctc2000
        Several of you raised questions about how much space I was looking to take up.
        Sounds like space is at a premium. If you are planning to acquire other tools and can swing the funding, you may want to look at the pro grade multitools such as the Mini-max. There are other brands out there as well, and the manufacturers sell reconditioned machines at a steep discount, but most of them still seem to be in the few thousand dollar range.

        A Shopsmith could be another options. One can usually find a 10ER for under $100, sometimes a Mk V for a few hundred. Reconditioned machines can be purchased at deep discounts at the factory sales, if you are close to Dayton, and they are always running some kind of sale. Given the very high price for a new one though, I'd look for a used one. Be aware the tablesaw mode is a little wonky and non-standard, and I wouldn't feel comfortable cutting sheet goods on the Shopsmith. It's OK for joinery, though, and the availability and lower cost on the used market makes it worth considering.

        Also, several of you guys mentioned getting the Craftsman 21829 for much less than what I have been seeing it for. I would like some feedback on how this is possible.
        The price was reduced by combining sales, SYWR points, referral rebates, and credit card rebates. I explained in more detail in prior posts:
        This is the place to ask questions about the Ryobi BT3 series table saws. Please limit the posts to this topic only.

        Use this forum to post info about a great bargain you have found on any woodworking related item. Please be aware that posts in this forum will be deleted once they expire or if they are found to be unworthy. Please, no "gloats" unless it is a deal that others can get. The items posted should be new and/or refurbished merchandise, and must be available to more that just the posting individual. Also, suffecient information should be included that would allow an individual to find the item, preferably on the web or through a local store.


        In reviewing the prior posts, I was reminded that my cost was actually $226.04. NOTE: no one has seen that price since that sale in 2010, so don't expect to get that deal - it's possible but unlikely. If you watch the deal sites and are patient, it seems a price in the $300 to $400 range is not too hard to find.

        As another point of reference, I paid $75 for a used BT3100 in great condition, with most of the accessories, from a dealer a year or two ago. Might be worth checking with machine tool dealers in your area, they often accept "trade ins" and tend to sell the non-industrial equipment fairly inexpensively.
        --------------------------------------------------
        Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

        Comment

        • greenacres2
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 633
          • La Porte, IN
          • Ryobi BT3000

          #19
          If you're near one of these locations you might get a break on a 21829:


          Or--there's a few 21833's scattered around the country...


          Sometimes it's new in the box stuff that's been returned unopened. Sometimes it's a display model missing a few parts--depending on what's missing it might be a steal or it might be ugly. I've had some luck getting missing parts for free when i call into the support line--even though i tell them the truth!!

          earl

          Comment

          • BigguyZ
            Veteran Member
            • Jul 2006
            • 1818
            • Minneapolis, MN
            • Craftsman, older type w/ cast iron top

            #20
            Are you looking to just make rip/ crosscuts on it, or joinery as well?

            Why not a track saw? That with a MFT would give you the ability to accurately cut wood, but also be able to be easily transported and moved into the shed.

            Comment

            • toolguy1000
              Veteran Member
              • Mar 2009
              • 1142
              • westchester cnty, ny

              #21
              ridgid 4510. all the features of a bosch and a lower price. also, and 90 day satisfaction guaranty, a 3 year new tool guaranty and it's covered by ridgid's LSA (remember to register the new tool with the LSA program or there's no LSA coverage!). here's ridgid's power tool coverage info:

              This warranty information applies to RIDGID Brand Handheld Power Tools, select Stationary Power Tools and Pneumatic Tools purchased between Feb. 1 2004 – Present, from an authorized retailer.


              and if a HD can be found that honors the harbor freight "20% off any single item" coupon, it may be had for $400. it's also a left tilt. the c-man 21829 is a right tilt. not a problem for a lot of users; i just don't care for saws where a beveled blade tilts towards the fence.
              there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

              Comment

              • cwsmith
                Veteran Member
                • Dec 2005
                • 2737
                • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                • BT3100-1

                #22
                I've been following the posts here, although I may have not fully read everything.

                I've come away with a couple of important issues, one being that storage space is a major challenge and that portability is a definite issue, in that you have to remove the saw from it's storage position and move it to an adjacent area for actual operation. (I've been faced with the same challenge for many years!)

                That challenge alone would rule out the Ridgid 4512 and the similar Craftsman 21833. Both are heavy and large and would definitely take up significant room in the storage shed. Also, not to be overlooked, is that they are cast-iron table tops which would warrant significant maintenance to keep oxidation away.

                My choice would be one of the mobile/folding carriage saws. Personally, I don't think the Bosch is worth the cost, though I am sure that is argueable by many. Likewise, I think the $512.99 list on the Craftsman 21829 is prohibitive when compared to other models, especially with it's "1 year warranty". (I do love my BT3100 though, but it's not the same thing.)

                I do thing the Ridgid 4510 is a good choice, considering warranty and LLSA (if properly registered). But it doesn't have the SMT, which I personally find to be a great feature. I do have a Ryobi BTS21 and I really like it... but of course it's not a BT3100 either, but the SMT is quite nice and it offers a great amount of versatility in it's portability and it is quite accurate. With a good blade, it provides both portability and stability in it's function.

                As a "first" saw, I would think the newer version (currently at your Home Depot) of the BTS21 (it now is fitted with a riving knife and easily removed blade guard) would be a good starter and a great "first step". It would definitely NOT be a purchase that I would consider as my one-and-only purchase lasting well into the future however!

                I think MUCH would be determined on the projects that you foresee doing. I for one, do not use my table saw for cutting up full-size plywood sheets; it's much more efficient and safer to use a circular saw and a "factory edge" as a guide to reduce such pieces before you take them to the table saw. Likewise, I'm not a fan of using my table saw as a platform for my router. I find a separate router table is much more efficient and definitely a better platform for shaping stock.

                But of course, we all have different perspectives. I just think that fitting your purchase to your current situation is best and then "stepping up" as your situation changes and your skills and projects demand. With a portable, like the BTS21 update or the Ridgid 4510, you can still have a backup tool or one which you can use outdoors, lend, or take to your project.

                Just a thought,

                CWS
                Think it Through Before You Do!

                Comment

                • guitarhero
                  Handtools only
                  • May 2013
                  • 2

                  #23
                  21829-Great Saw

                  First post. If you don't mind a refurb, this one is going for under $400 (depending on location)




                  The saw is perfect for small shops. Folds & unfolds very easily...Great dust collection, can cut 4 x 4's ... I've done some hobby woodworking, & this saw is perfect for lots of different home jobs. Not a production model, but who cares? It has features that saws twice the price don't have. Plenty of juice for my needs.

                  I've moved around a few times, had this stored in an unheated garage for about 4 years. Fired it up last week and all was well. Did some non-important-accuracy cuts ( garden tool holder for daughter's garage),including a 5 degree bevel on an 8 ft. 2x4 and some 40 different tool-slot cuts on a 1x4, using the smt all with no problems. (well, some juggling a bit with them 8 footers using only the stock tables)

                  It needs some TLC (let the in-laws use it!) & a tune up, but I do love this saw & I'm sure you will. I live across the border from Detroit, bought this around '08 or so for around $450 Can. ( I think! -can't remember).

                  The saw seems very durable, handling cold weather storage & all pretty good. I've gotta clean it up a bit, (still looks new), some bolts are a tad rusty, don't know how accurate it is now. As I recall, it's a be-otch to set up perfectly.
                  Not sure about moving the rails around. The manual said every time you move 'em, they need to be re-set up. I just left them on as stock.

                  I'd say if anyone wants a decent saw for home use, this just can't be beat. With some fine tuning & additional jigs, I would think you can make anything you need around the house with this baby. Even at full price, I don't think you can go wrong.

                  Of course, I honed my very dubious skills on an el-cheapo sears saw (can't remember the name, was a direct drive tho) so, this has many more nice features, the best of which is the SMT. Haven't tried the router table yet. If my Bosch plunge router fits, I'll do that. If not, I got a 1/4 collect sears that for sure will fit.

                  Also note, the dust collection with a shop vac attached makes it a near free dust operation. Especially with the guard attached.... oops.... I should it back on?
                  If treated gently, I can't see why this wouldn't last for years. Mine's already had cold winter storage in a non-heated garage and so far so good.

                  Hope this helps!

                  Comment

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