Cabinet questions

[cad]

1. What is the typical size of face frames?

2. What is the typical space between the inside of the carcass and inside of the face frame? Conversely the distance between outside of carcass and outside of ff? Are these spaces consistent to all 4 sides?

3. Is the bottom panel flush with the sides or is it raised up. Online I've seen both dadoes and rabbets used. I plan on making the toe kicks separately. Is it the same for uppers and lowers?

4. How do you like to attach the ff to the carcass? Dados, biscuits, nails?

Thanks

[JimD]

Mine are typically about 2 inches wide but I try it with a piece of scrap and just judge what looks good to me.

The face frames I have used are flush with the outside surface. So a 2 inch on a cabinet of 3/4 plywood would project 1 and 1/4 inches past the inside edge of the plywood.

The inside bottom of the carcass can be flush to the inside edge of the face frame. That is what I do. But others, especially on painted cabinets, will have the plywood about 1/4 inch above the inside edge of the face frame which lets the plywood stop the door. I usually just use the door catch as the stop but if you use European hinges you don't need a catch. I just don't like the unfinished edge of the plywood showing. Covering it with hardwood significantly complicates the build. I also usually use an overlay door. If I am doing an inset door, I prefer leaf hinges and then I need a stop.

I like to use a few biscuits to align the face frame to the carcass. Typically I would only put them on two edges and let one side and the top run over to be trimmed flush after the glue dries. Making the face frame exactly the same size of the carcass is much harder than just making it slightly oversize and trimming. The attachment is glue and clamps. If you don't have enough clamps you could use a few brads but they will be somewhat noticable on a clear finish cabinet - but could possibly be covered by the doors. Biscuits on two edges will help a lot on alignment and keeping the face frame in place while you add clamps.

I like all drawers on base cabinets but if I put doors, I would make the face frame flush with the bottom edge of the carcass, especially if building a separate toe kick. I think you lift things out of base cabinets but sometimes slide them out of upper cabinets.

Jim

[cabinetman]

I agree pretty much with what Jim says. Your first decision is whether you want overlay doors, or inset doors. Then to decide if you want face frames or not. They aren't necessary.

Just some face frame thoughts. Hinges for face frames are figured in inches, and for frameless are figured for the overlay amount. IMO, hinges/plates designed for frameless are much better. If you figure a standard width for face frames, you should decide how much frame will show between hinged edges of doors, and whether the gaps will be the same for where pairs of doors meet.

I prefer to have finished bottoms on upper cabinets. So, with a 3/4" floor, if a face frame is used, it will be 3/4" for the bottom rail...same for the base cabinets. That also allows for easy cleaning.

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[cad]

Thank you for the responses. I really appreciate it.

A couple other questions if you don't mind. Oh and I'll be using overlay doors cabinetman.

1. I plan on making the toe kick separately so I can level it out and then put the cabinets on top of them. Are the cabinets attached to the toe kicks? If so, how? One of the cabinets is a ceiling tall pantry. Will separate toe kicks be ok on it as well?

2. Will the outside cabinets (those not sandwiched between other cabinets and walls) look odd with the separate toe kick since there won't be a continuous piece of ply going to the floor? I was thinking of making the outside side panel have it's own toe kick but cutting it short so that floats. How is this normally done?

3. Is the bottom panel flush with the sides or is it up a little. Online I've seen people use both rabbets and dados to install them.




OR

[cabinetman]

Thank you for the responses. I really appreciate it.

A couple other questions if you don't mind. Oh and I'll be using overlay doors cabinetman.

1. I plan on making the toe kick separately so I can level it out and then put the cabinets on top of them. Are the cabinets attached to the toe kicks? If so, how? One of the cabinets is a ceiling tall pantry. Will separate toe kicks be ok on it as well?

You can put some trim screws through the floor. Or, lay a bead of adhesive caulk on top of the toe kick. I make the toe kicks like an enclosed ladder, with triangulated gussets in the corners. Those are the places screws can be driven.

For a tall pantry, if one piece, you would need a loose toe kick to install it.

2. Will the outside cabinets (those not sandwiched between other cabinets and walls) look odd with the separate toe kick since there won't be a continuous piece of ply going to the floor? I was thinking of making the outside side panel have it's own toe kick but cutting it short so that floats. How is this normally done?

I usually just recess the end of the toe kick to match the front. Or recess whatever you think looks good. For a fuller look, recess just 1/8".

3. Is the bottom panel flush with the sides or is it up a little. Online I've seen people use both rabbets and dados to install them.

I make mine flush with the sides (using a rabbet).

.