Basswood Finishing

[emjr]

I'm fine with finishing if it's polyurethane over stain. What's driving me crazy now, though, is trying to get a schellac finish to come out uniform on some basswood endgrain.
I'm using this procedure on "crosswise" slices of basswood that my wife has asked me to finish for a craft project:

1. Sand endgrain to 220 grit.

2. Apply a coat of shellac to one side, and after it dries, to the other side.

3. Sand again with 220 grit, brush off dust, wipe with tack cloth.

4. Apply second coat of shellac, both sides. When dry, sand with 320 grit, remove dust as in Step 3.

5. Wet-sand (distilled water) the show surface of the slice with 400 grit wet-dry paper. Wipe off slurry with cotton cloth.

This leaves me with a surface that feels very smooth and uniform, but that shows an uneven gloss in some areas. I've tried adding another coat of shellac and repeating the wet-sanding to no avail. I also tried wiping with some alcohol on a cotton cloth. No joy. Is shellac not a good idea? Is basswood horribly hard to finish? These slices will have some food contact (why I chose shellac), so would I be better off with "salad bowl finish" or a water-based polyurethane?

Wife (and I) likes the surface the multi-coat shellac leaves, other than the visual unevenness. If I have to switch products, can I achieve the same effect with multiple coats of poly and wet-sanding? Thanks for any advice-consider it a welcome contribution to marital harmony!

[SARGE..g-47]

Are you wiping or brushing the shellac? Are you using your own mix or you using Zinser's pre-mix in a can and if so.. are you cutting it with denatured alcohol. If the latter.. what is the date code on the can?

BTW.. basswood is a wonderful wood to carve as it is so soft but... it may not have been the best choice for showing end-grain which is "very" open pored on Basswood and prone to tear out. If I were using it in the manner you are... I would basically burnish the end-grain which I do with about all end grain to keep it from drinking finish.

If it is going to have food contact.. I would use the shellac or salad bowl finish. Or you could finish with mineral oil depending on what you are seeking in sheen as an end result.

[cabinetman]

I'm fine with finishing if it's polyurethane over stain. What's driving me crazy now, though, is trying to get a schellac finish to come out uniform on some basswood endgrain.
I'm using this procedure on "crosswise" slices of basswood that my wife has asked me to finish for a craft project:

1. Sand endgrain to 220 grit.

2. Apply a coat of shellac to one side, and after it dries, to the other side.

3. Sand again with 220 grit, brush off dust, wipe with tack cloth.

4. Apply second coat of shellac, both sides. When dry, sand with 320 grit, remove dust as in Step 3.

5. Wet-sand (distilled water) the show surface of the slice with 400 grit wet-dry paper. Wipe off slurry with cotton cloth.

This leaves me with a surface that feels very smooth and uniform, but that shows an uneven gloss in some areas. I've tried adding another coat of shellac and repeating the wet-sanding to no avail. I also tried wiping with some alcohol on a cotton cloth. No joy. Is shellac not a good idea? Is basswood horribly hard to finish? These slices will have some food contact (why I chose shellac), so would I be better off with "salad bowl finish" or a water-based polyurethane?

Wife (and I) likes the surface the multi-coat shellac leaves, other than the visual unevenness. If I have to switch products, can I achieve the same effect with multiple coats of poly and wet-sanding? Thanks for any advice-consider it a welcome contribution to marital harmony!

Basswood is a very soft porous wood. It is difficult to get a film finish, especially on end grain. You could just use the shellac with in-between sanding of 320x until it is completely sealed. It sounds like from your description that there's just not enough applications. Make sure you use a wax free shellac. Shellac could be a stand alone finish. I wouldn't use a tack cloth (the sticky kind) as they have the ability to leave residue. There are dry tack cloths that work well, or blast of air works good too. Also, I wouldn't use alcohol as a wipe.

You can use the shellac as a sealer (several thin coats) allowing them to cure before reapplying. Then any other film finish can be used. Once a film finish has cured it will be food safe.
.

[pelligrini]

I've used basswood on some small dart cases. The best results I got with finishing endgrain was to go even finer than 320 on the endgrain when sanding. I didn't know much about finishing when I was doing those cases. Most of my skills were developed from architectural models. I whish I knew about sealing grain because just sanding really fine helps with dark stain but it doesn't prevent all problems.

[SARGE..g-47]

Agree with CB that you have not built a finish with shellac using the methods you precribled. Shellac will take 4-5 coats normally to build into a smooth finish. The good news is one coat blends into the former coat un-like poly which lays on top of each other.

You didn't mention which shellac either nor the way you applied. I suggest you wipe using the touch down and go method as if you were practicing touch and go's in an airplane. And your folded rag should have been throughly soaked in de-natured alcohol and then wrung out before use. If you get any drag... you need a dash more alcohol applied to the applicator. And.. never go back over what you just did. If you don't get it even.. another coat will blend together as I mentioned so no harm done on one coat.

And don't use out of code shellac or you will never get an even finish.

Good luck...

[cabinetman]

And don't use out of code shellac or you will never get an even finish.

Old shellac won't dry (cure) either.
.

[emjr]

Are you wiping or brushing the shellac? Are you using your own mix or you using Zinser's pre-mix in a can and if so.. are you cutting it with denatured alcohol. If the latter.. what is the date code on the can?

BTW.. basswood is a wonderful wood to carve as it is so soft but... it may not have been the best choice for showing end-grain which is "very" open pored on Basswood and prone to tear out. If I were using it in the manner you are... I would basically burnish the end-grain which I do with about all end grain to keep it from drinking finish.

If it is going to have food contact.. I would use the shellac or salad bowl finish. Or you could finish with mineral oil depending on what you are seeking in sheen as an end result.

Sarge-
I'm brushing from a can of Zinsser with a production date of April this year. I'm using a foam brush, do you think that might make a difference? I can cut it with denatured alcohol-what dilution factor would you recommend?
Reason for using the basswood is 'cause the wife is making rustic "trays" with the bark still on and there's very little else available that won't shed its bark or crack radially. Thanks for the response.

[vaking]

I don't have much experience with shellac except recently I used shellac as sealer on a floor (Behr universal sealer which is water-based shellac). The first line of instruction on that sealer was not to sand shellac but to proceed with other finishes right on top of shellac without sanding. According to warning label sanding shellac would result in shellac melting and causing problems.

[emjr]

Cabinetman-
Good point about the tack cloths. I'll get a dry one. When you mention sanding @ 320 between coats, should that be straight dry sanding or wet-sanding as I've been doing with 400x?

Thanks to all of you-I'll keep trying using your tips until I get it right.

[SARGE..g-47]

Sarge-
I'm brushing from a can of Zinsser with a production date of April this year. I'm using a foam brush, do you think that might make a difference? I can cut it with denatured alcohol-what dilution factor would you recommend?
Reason for using the basswood is 'cause the wife is making rustic "trays" with the bark still on and there's very little else available that won't shed its bark or crack radially. Thanks for the response.

If you are wiping I would take it down to 1.5 lb. cut.. if brushing to 1 lb. I prefer wiping but.. if those trays have lips on the outside edge applied it would interfere with the touch down and lift method which is basically touching down slightly and running the applicator the length until the end where you lift. So.. you may have to resort to brushing in some form if that is the case with a tray which I suspect.

Now.. Zinser is covering some ground when you say just Zinser. They have the sealer which is supposely a 2 lb. cut and the clear.. amber.. tinted etc. which is 3 lb. cut out of the can. So.. cut appropriately for which you have. In other words if you are going to brush.. cut the clear... amber.. 2/3 denatured and 1/3 shellac. If wiping cut it 50-50 which would bring the 3 lb. cut to 1.5 lbs.

And.. the can will say not to cut! Don't believe them as everyone that uses shellac regulary will tell you to cut it as I mentioned above. And if you do brush wet the foam pad or brush with De-alcohol. Squeeze is out if foam and sling it out if a true oil bristle brush.

Also.. I noticed you were sanding between coats. That is fine once you have a couple of coat down to start a base. But.. do it very lightly and I would use 400 grit or 500. Just get the nibs off as anything more will take away from the base and may be part of your problem to begin with.. I dry sand so I can see how much I am taking off as you only want to take the nibs off.. not the base. And drop that "water" you mentioned. Shellac and water are not a match made in heaven.

Gotta get back to the shop to polish some ebony drawer knobs.. Good luck and hopefully your knowledge and technique improves with this project. I highly suggest you get a finish book by Hewitt or a friend of mine named Peter Gedrys.. That will take you a long way as yes.. this finishing deal can be a nightmare if you don't grasp the basics as anything else.

Again.. good luck. I will check latter on coffee break to see how you are progresssing.. You sound as if you have to right attitude of I'm going to get this right if it kills me.. ha.. ha.. ha..ha..ha.. That's what it takes sometimes I am afraid..