Planing or sanding a table top?

[ekulrialb@yahoo.com]

Hello - so this is my first post everyone so bear with me...

I may have bit off more than I can chew, but my first project is a cherry bench. Last night I glued the top together - consisting of four 5 inch wide cherry boards. I believe I configured the clamps the right way, but I had a hard time keeping the boards flush while clamping them together. So the glue has set and there are small offsets in various places. The boards are about 5 inches wide. I want to know if I'm in for a major planing job or a major sanding job. I'm intimidated by the thought of using a hand/jack planer on my first project. Although more work, would I be better off (safer) sanding the top instead? Is this a viable option?

Any help/tutorials would be much appreciated.

Luke

[Tom Miller]

Welcome to the forum!

That's not at all uncommon in a glue-up -- it's preventable to a greater or lesser degree, but it's something you should expect and know how to deal with.

It would be a great time to pull out a plane, but I agree that it's a little daunting if you've never done it before. If you're like me, you could easily make matters worse.

Depending on how much ripple, or undulation you can put up with, a ROS with 80 grit could take down the ridges (be careful).

Whatever approach you decide to use, first wait 3 days or more for the moisture from the glue joints to come out, otherwise the swelled areas that you make flush will turn into depressions in a few days.

I'm sure more help will be along shortly. In the meantime, remain calm.

Regards,
Tom

[Shep]

If the boards just have a small variation, I would simply sand it down. I've been in the same situation with maple, and trust me, you'll get better at gluing up boards the more you practice. Gluing boards will make you have OCD trying to have your boards set correctly.

[scmhogg]

Welcome Luke,

Tom's suggestion regarding waiting is right on.

Call around locally and find a shop that has a drum sander that will accommodate 20" +. Usually they will help you for a minimum fee of $20.00 or so.

Trying to level a table top with a plane or belt sander is really difficult for your first project. Correcting errors could leave you with a 1/2" thick top.

Next time use biscuits to help you line up the glue up.

Steve

[poolhound]

depending on how crtical the quality of the finished surface is I would either sand by hand using a combination of a belt sander, ROS and hand blocks, or as Steve suggests find a local cabinet shop that will rent you time on their wide belt sander.

You havent put your location in your profile but it if you can find another member here thats close to you they may have a drum sander or even a wide belt sander that tyhey would be willing to let you use.

Why did this happen? it could have been a multitude of reasons. Did you joint and mill the pieces dead sq before glue up? How did you clamp them, where all the clamps level, did you use clamping blocks? All of these plus many more potential gotchas could have resulted in an uneven glue up.

Oh yes - welcome to the greatest woodworking forum in the known universe!!!

[ekulrialb@yahoo.com]

Thanks everyone!

The offsets aren't too too bad. I think I'll sand them down - thanks for the suggestion to wait a few days for the glue to completely set - I learned something there.

So good to hear the following:
1. "its not uncommon"
2. "you'll get better"
3. "next time use biscuits"
I agree about the biscuits.. Next time! Actually, after this experience trying to control the alignment of all four boards, I began to think I should have glued one board at a time (in this case I could have glued 2 pair at once, then one more glue later to complete the top). Does anyone recommend this or am I becoming OCD?

Thanks again!

[ekulrialb@yahoo.com]

Yes, I was very careful make the boards dead square during jointing and milling.

I used six clamps (3 top and 3 below), and square clamping blocks too.

One mistake (I think) was to put thin strips of plywood under each board (parallel to each boards). I did this in order to keep the boards off the clamps - I was told the glue can cause rust to the clamps and, in turn, stain the boards. But these thin strips acted like levers so the boards were free to swivel with downward pressure.

[drumpriest]

There are ways to handle these glue ups better, for instance tapered cauls clamped down across the top every so often help to force alignment. Biscuits or splines can help too. Ultimately you're likely to have some amount of clean up to do anyway.

I'm lucky in that I have a local mill and cabinet shop, and they have a time saver 43" wide belt sander. They rent time on it to me. (I don't think they do it for everyone, but I'm friends with the owners). My understanding is that there are several shops out there that will rent time on such machines, it might be worth calling around, especially if you see a number of large glue ups like that in your future.

They were also nice enough to square up the ends and cut to size on their Euro super duper table saw with the 5' wide cross cut sled. I've taken advantage of this resource a couple of times when I have done big glue ups for tables or desks.

[Uncle Cracker]

Welcome aboard... None of us was born fully grown, so don't be embarrassed about running into this problem. For edge glue-ups of the type you are doing, there are a couple of things that will make it easier for you in the future. First, work on a nice flat surface (it's a good excuse to build a sturdy assembly table). Wax the surface (or use a release paper) to keep from gluing your work to it. Make sure the planks you are using have acclimated to your temperature and humidity before you start work. Set yourself up to where you can clamp down stringers or otherwise put a lot of weight on the work to hold it tight to your bench or table surface. Use biscuits or dowels if you are comfortable with them, or just do edge-gluing. Leave the glued-up piece fixed in place for plenty of time for the glue to completely set up (I usually suggest whatever the glue directions say, times 2). After the piece is dry, flip it and check the surface to determine what the next step might need to be (probably a light scrape at the joints to remove any squeeze-out. Lightly sand the surface, and wipe down with mineral spirits to remove any wax or other residue. Sand and/or plane as required to flatten the surface and prep for whatever finish you are using. An open-ended drum sander is useful if you plan to do a fair amount of this, as the cost is less than a wide-body double-drum sander, and the footprint is smaller. If it is not in the budget, and you still need some serious surface attention, definitely invest in a trip to a local cabinet shop for a couple passes through their sander (this is not something to be ashamed of, as there is a good reason the pros use this equipment). Finish, enjoy, and do the next one a little better. That's what it's all about (that, and the hokey-pokey...).

[mpc]

How much extra width do you have in the glued-up assembly? It might be worthwhile to cut the boards apart (along the glue lines or on either side of the glue lines, tossing out the glue) and starting over if you can afford that much wood lost from the saw kerf. After separating the boards, you'll probably have not-quite-square edges since the not-flat glued-up assembly won't ride flat over your saw tabletop. But once the boards are separated you should be able to "joint" them on a jointer, using a router, or by carefully ripping the edges on a table saw with a quality blade.

Then you can re-glue using splines, biscuits, dowels, whatever, and take advantage of everybody's suggestions.

Other than that, time with a random orbit sander (ROS) as others suggested is a fairly simple (and fairly goof-proof for rookies) D-I-Y method. And a good ROS is a tool you'll need/use for most projects if you don't currently have one. A hand-held belt sander will be much faster than the ROS... but it's much easier to screw up and gouge out the project. Some folks have the touch for a belt sander... I gave up trying. The ROS is fast enough for me, and so much easier/less risky.

Renting time on a wide belt sander is the easiest... if you can find one.

mpc

[jabe]

I taught my students to glue up their boards using power tools with this procedure:
1. Start with 4/4 rgh. bds, plane each bd. to 15/16 not less than 7/8" thick.
2. Joint 1 edge straight. Rip the oposite edge on the TS to make each bd. square on the width be sure to have enough bds to make it 1" wider (rgh width) than your finish width of your top.
3. Then square each end of the bd. with RAS or MS keeping it to rough length about 1" longer than needed.
4. Orient your bds so the surface grain are all aligned in the same direction.
5. Orient the end grains so they're opposite from each other (this help prevent the glued up bds. from warping). Be sure the surface grain is still oriented (this minimize tear outs when surfacing).
6. Sequence Number the bds. so U don't glue them up in the wrong sequence.
7. Use the jointer and make a spring joint on all the bd edges that will be glued. You can skip this step if U use biscuits or finger joint w/router table. Spring joint was faster & strong (if done correctly, the joint would be stronger than the wood itself).
8. Glue & clamp the bds. (wipe up any glue that oozed out of the joint with a damp cloth). Use cauls on each end of the glued up boards, this help prevent the top from warping. Hint place scrap paper under cauls so it wont get glued to the top when U clamp it.
9. After the glue has dried remove clamps scrape off any dried glue that oozed out the joint (this will prevent chipping of your planer knives).
10. Use a surface planer or wide belt sander and plane or sand it to finish thickness. By starting with thicker bds B4 gluing and surfacing it after the glue up, you'll always get a uniform thickness on your glued up peice. I had a 24" planer & 37" wide belt sander in the shop.
11. Square the glued peice to finish width then to finish length.

Scince retiring, I miss having the wide belt sander, now I rent time on the WBS from a local cabinet shop.

[SARGE..g-47]

For a small ridge as you describe.. a hand held card scrap will take it out in minutes with a few passes. I did 3 joints last night and have three more to do this morning when the other 12" half of a top comes out of the clamps. I simply need one side flat as I will run two 12" sections through a 20" planer (I am fortunate) and then glue them. The final ridge (if any) will be taken out with a hand scraper also as 24" won't quite make it through a 20" planer I don't think.

If the ridges are deep (which is seldom) I use a hand plane. But.. this has already been touched on... keep the grain in one direction. If you have it running in opposite directions your iron can take a chunk out when it skews from board with one grain one direction to another board in the opposite. This is especially true with squirrelly grain wood as maple.. etc. You can dig a chunk out large enough to hide and entire infantry platoon in that scenario.

And the suggestion to use the 80 grit is good but keep the ROS moving and don't allow it to dig a hole in the area with the ridge. BTW.. I don't use biscuits to align for the most part. I find two "butt-kissed" edges to be sufficient if you prepare properly. But.. if I have some stock with major stress I will cut a dado in the edges and use a wooden spline the lenght of the stock.

You sounded as if you were set up good but.. most likely glue creep when clamping moved the joints out of alignment. This is why I don't bother with biscuits. They are under-sized for the hole the cutter makes and clamp pressure can make the stock creep even with them. If I did use biscuits.. I would cut my own to fit the hole like a glove... otherwise to me I find them pretty much useless. Others may not?

Good luck as I have to go take care of some slight ridges on a 24" x 62" top. Ain't life great...

[cabinetman]

If the series of boards are dimensioned and machined properly, they can be just edge glued and clamped. You could get good rips from the table saw, or from a jointer for the mating edges. I use a block sander and give the mating edges a quick swipe before glue up just to get a smooth clean edge.

I don't use biscuits as IMO, they don't insure alignment. There is enough spacing to allow the biscuit to slide in, and there is room for glue. That minimal gap can allow for movement while gluing and clamping. If anything I may use a spline.

What will insure alignment is the use of cauls. They are strips of wood or other material, with a straight edge that get clamped on edge across the series of boards, top and bottom, that are being glued up. What the process will look like is cauls across the boards, and clamps on the cauls. This keeps everything flat and tight. I don't suggest using tapered cauls, which are supposed to account for the caul bending. I use cauls that are massive enough in their thickness and width that don't bend. Some are wood, some are metal. For the glue up, waxed paper can be used between the cauls and the boards as a glue barrier.

As for the offset that may result of boards slipping under being clamped, or due to overclamping, a wide belt sander would be the most ideal method. Just treating the offset, may leave a high and low wave along the board. You just can't scrape or sand the high edge, as that board may be high on that joint and low on the other edge. IOW, the whole top across the glue up has to be uniformly leveled to the lowest point.

What helps in getting even cross clamping is to alternate which side the clamps are on. IOW, you don't want all the cross clamps on top of the boards.
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