Joint design - for legs

[steve_b]

I have thoght that I would take the plunge and make a basic table (for outside)
I have a router, band saw, BT3100, drill press
Recommendations on the best way of making the join between the legs and the 'body' of the table - dowel, motise & tenion? durability is key - and I dont have the $$ for any purchased jigs (though I can make stuff)
sites, links etc would be welcome..

Thanks

Steve

[MikeMcCoy]

By "body", I'm assuming you mean apron but I could be wrong since that's happened many times before. You have everything needed for either method you mention but I prefer mortise and tenon.

[SARGE..g-47]

For me.. there are only two choices for attaching leg aprons or stretchers.... M & T or bridal joint (sometimes called a saddle joint dependng on what neck of the woods).

[Mr__Bill]

Wood Magazine issue 190 May 2009 has a very interesting article on glue. It covers two joints, M&T and half lap with three kinds of glue. It's very interesting and is counter to most thoughts (mine at least) on what is stronger and better. Bottom line is half lap with type 3 glue for tight joints and epoxy for not so well made joints. Half lap was better than M&T for strength and a lot easier to make with the tools you have and if you don't do a perfect job just use an epoxy to glue it up.

Polyurethane glue was the worse to use behind even type 2 used outdoors.

I live where it rains a lot, the best here is all plastic! This winter my aluminum grill cover rusted

Bill, on the Sunny Oregon Coast

[SARGE..g-47]

I was in a hurry to get down to the shop and Mr. Bill's post alerted me to something I didn't give much thought too. You stated a table for outside which is going to be sensitive to glue issues. My question is.. what will the table be used for and is it intended to be used in junction with rather high end outdoor furniture or more of a rustic look.

If the latter.. I would give a different answer to what to use as glue won't hold up as well outside period as stainless steels bolts.. nuts and washers counter-sunk with either through tenons or bridals... So...

Now off to the shop to tackle my own obstacles..

[Tom Miller]

Sarge makes a good point -- it depends on what kind of piece you're making. Another thing to think about is whether to make it "knock-down"; a good thing for pieces that might go into winter storage.

Pieces that reside outdoors have the chance of experiencing the greatest (and fastest) swings in moisture, so glued joints could really take a beating. Sarge's suggestion of considering fasteners, in conjunction with M&T or other joinery, is a good one. When these joints loosen up, just grab a wrench.

Regards,
Tom

[Shep]

I hate to say it, but for outdoor use I would use a kreg jig to hide screws from the underside. It would solve your glue problem and would be easy to take apart if you ever needed to for storage. If you don't have the $ for a jig, you can make one with your drill press and a scrap 2/4. Drill 2 3/4" holes in the end of the 2x4, then cut a decent angle trough the block with your saw. You should end up with a wedge with 2 holes to allow you to drill into your work with the 3/4" bit. Not as nice as the kreg, but good enough.

[steve_b]

Thanks.. the project is a 'gardening' table - basically a work bench for the ward - but I wish to make something different than a standard bench.
However - the next project after that will be an inside table (for the TV room) so the outside project is a warm up for the inside one. I can understand the use of fasteners for outside and as Shep has mentioned a 'Kreg' jig (I'll google that )

To further the question - are there any links about doing M&T joints - assuming that this is the way to go (inside application this time) with the basic tools I have?

Thank you..

[MikeMcCoy]

Here are a couple of "how-to" links to get you started:

http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article.asp?Site=woodworking&ID=244

http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2005/06/24/wb/

[SARGE..g-47]

"Thanks.. the project is a 'gardening' table - basically a work bench for the ward - but I wish to make something different than a standard bench".. S

If you don't want bolts heads and nuts showing.. drill a hole large enough for them to fit inside and counter-sink them. Then.. use a dowel the size of the hole.. cut off short pieces and plug the hole. Block plane or sand it smooth. That will give you bolts and a more refined look.

Good luck...

[Tom Miller]

To further the question - are there any links about doing M&T joints - assuming that this is the way to go (inside application this time) with the basic tools I have?

Mike's got you started with "how to" sites -- there's probably one or two more out there. Just wanted to note that you've definitely got the tools to do it. Many approaches require additional jigs and fixtures, but those are easily made with the tools you have.

You can also do tenons on the table saw by several different means, or on the bandsaw, so include that in your googling, too.

IMO, your idea to practice "inside" joinery for this piece might be a bit of a stretch, but maybe not.

Regards,
Tom

[drumpriest]

As always I'll link you to this tutorial from our page, apparently people never find it.

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=27419

I would probably do mortise and tenon or mortise and loose tenon, with a waterproof wood glue you should be fine. (titebond III)