MDF Wall Cabinets

[djenkins]

I am wanting to build some wall cabinets out of 3/4" MDF and have read the threads from RayintheUK stating you could do that, but I still have a few questions or clarifications:

1. In building the cases is it best to dado a 3/4" by 1/4" groove approx. 1" from the bottom and top on the sides or rabbet them flush to the bottom to eliminate tearout? I plan on screwing and glueing the sides to the bottom and top but I can see that the weight from items on the bottom shelf could contribute to tearout.

2. For mounting purposes I plan to screw through the back into wall studs every 12". Is it best to place a full 3/4" MDF back rabbeted into the case or place cleats made out of 1X4s flush with the back? Adding the full back adds considerable more weight.

3. Can face frames for the cabinets be made out of MDF or should I use hardwood? And finally what length KREG screws will I need to join 3/4" face stock and 1/2" face stock?

I appreciate your guidance,

djenkins

[RodKirby]

In this case, size DOES matter. What size will the cabinets be?
What do you plan to store in them?

[djenkins]

I am making some cabinets to hide all the "stuff" in my garage and become better organized with my woodworking projects. Also, I plan on hanging them on the wall to get everything up off the floor. The first set of cabinets will be about 20" deep by 20" high and will run a width of about 10 feet wide. These will hold items that the LOML insists must be stored in my garage. i don't know why, she has the rest of the house to store them in. Anyway, these items are not too heavy. Each cabinet would be around 26" wide to span the 10 foot width. That's if I can get away with it. I know my shelf width has limits and I have an article with guidelines on acceptable loads for various MDF shelf widths. It also states you can use oak hardwood glued to the adjustable shelves to boost the load capacity.

I want to build the same type cabinets at the rear of my garage but they would be deeper, around 3 foot. With this depth will I need a permenant shelf for additional depth at mid-depth? Items to be stored here is everything one would find in a garage, (cleaners, oil and lubricants, paint, tools, etc.)

Will all this be feasible or will they be too large to be able to safely attach to the walls?

Thanks,

djenkins

[RayintheUK]

1. In building the cases is it best to dado a 3/4" by 1/4" groove approx. 1" from the bottom and top on the sides or rabbet them flush to the bottom to eliminate tearout? I plan on screwing and glueing the sides to the bottom and top but I can see that the weight from items on the bottom shelf could contribute to tearout.

I run a dado 3/4" x 3/8" in both sides, top and bottom, inset 3/4" from the rear of the carcass. The sides are rabbetted into the top and bottom (single rabbets are fine, doubles just look better) and the whole thing is glued to (and therefore hangs off) the back.

2. For mounting purposes I plan to screw through the back into wall studs every 12". Is it best to place a full 3/4" MDF back rabbeted into the case or place cleats made out of 1X4s flush with the back? Adding the full back adds considerable more weight.

Add a French cleat immediately under the top, glue and screw it through the back. If you're nervous, you can use an additional cleat lower down, but you'll need to be absolutely accurate in placing this second cleat - I use a jig. The whole point of having a full 3/4" back is that it will TAKE the weight.

3. Can face frames for the cabinets be made out of MDF or should I use hardwood? And finally what length KREG screws will I need to join 3/4" face stock and 1/2" face stock?

I simply do not understand why anyone would bother to use face frames for cabinet construction, especially in a garage/workshop setting. Not only are they more work, but they make the cabinets more diffcult to clean out. Use full overlay European hinges, preferably sprung snap-ons.

The first set of cabinets will be about 20" deep by 20" high and will run a width of about 10 feet wide. These will hold items that the LOML insists must be stored in my garage. Each cabinet would be around 26" wide to span the 10 foot width. It also states you can use oak hardwood glued to the adjustable shelves to boost the load capacity.

That's true, but again depends on the shelf thickness. 3/4" shelving is fairly robust over those widths. Try it, you could always retro-fit hardwood if you needed to.

I want to build the same type cabinets at the rear of my garage but they would be deeper, around 3 foot. With this depth will I need a permenant shelf for additional depth at mid-depth? Items to be stored here is everything one would find in a garage, (cleaners, oil and lubricants, paint, tools, etc.)

Will all this be feasible or will they be too large to be able to safely attach to the walls?

I'm not sure I understand this correctly - you're intending to make wall cabinets 3 feet deep, as in from front to back? I doubt you would ever get to what's stored at the back and the triangular stress forces operating on the fixings would be enormous. Base cabinets, attached to the wall with a nailing strip, fair enough, but wall hung at those dimensions for garage stuff - I don't think so.

Ray.

[dlminehart]

I agree with Ray, 3' deep wall cabinets are unmanageable. Most kitchen base cabinets are about 2' deep, and I have trouble getting stuff out of the backs of them unless the shelves are mounted on pull-out tracks like drawers.

I've found that shelving about as deep as an apple crate is best. In fact, I use such crates (or the similar-sized see-through plastic ones with flip-open lids) to compartmentalize stuff.

[djenkins]

MDF Wall Cabinets

Ray,

I am going to have to apologize for being a newbie at making cases, but I need some further clarification.

1. I am having a hard time visualizing where you place the dado at "3/4" from the rear of the carcass" and how you rabbet or double rabbet the sides into the top and bottom. Do you have a picture of how you do that? i think that would clear it up for me.

2. Are you using french cleats instead of a full MDF back or in combination with a full back?

3. I agree with not using face frames. If I can get away with not using them that would save a lot of time. How do you fit the doors to the front without face frames? Does the bottom and top of the doors fit flush with the cabinet bottom and top or does it extend further to be flush with the sides. I plan on using full European hinges.

4. I'll try the shelving for the 20" cabinets with just the 3/4" MDF and no hardwood. Thanks, that will save me some time.

5. Sorry Ray and dlminehart, I used the wrong term for the large cabinet's height along the back of my garage. I went and measured and they will be 32"-36" high (top to bottom), 24" to 26" deep, (front to back) and will span 13'-4" across the back of my garage. Can I get away with 6 cabinets to span this length? If not how many cabinets will I need for this span?

I will be using bins in these cabinets also to compartmentalize and get all my stuff managable.

Thanks for all the help guys. This site is great!

djenkins

[RayintheUK]

1. I am having a hard time visualizing where you place the dado at "3/4" from the rear of the carcass" and how you rabbet or double rabbet the sides into the top and bottom. Do you have a picture of how you do that? i think that would clear it up for me.

Below is an "exploded" diagram of the carcass parts. The central rectangle is the back, the dados are shown in gray and the rabbets in black:

2. Are you using french cleats instead of a full MDF back or in combination with a full back?

I've only ever used French cleats with a full back. Here's a side view, with the cleats shown in dark gray. This drawing shows two sets of cleats in use. If using one set, I always position this immediately under the top, gluing the cleat to both the back and the underside of the top. You can now see the reason for insetting the dados - to allow the cleat to sit accurately and provide full support.

It also shows (at "A") a front view of the single rabbet used to join both top and bottom to the cabinet sides. Remember, though, that as both sides, top and bottom are attached to the back, the rabbets are taking less weight and forces than they otherwise would, which is why the construction is so robust.

3. I agree with not using face frames. If I can get away with not using them that would save a lot of time. How do you fit the doors to the front without face frames? Does the bottom and top of the doors fit flush with the cabinet bottom and top or does it extend further to be flush with the sides. I plan on using full European hinges.

The door completely overlays all four elements of the cabinet carcass, which is why you need to use "full overlay" European hinges (you can Google for them). If the overall dimensions of the cabinet are 24" H x 24" W, then the door is the same measurement. The hinge plates fit a defined distance from the leading edge of one side (both sides if double doors) and the hinges are adjustable once mounted to the plates.

If you get the clip-on sprung type, it means that - once adjusted - the doors can be completely removed without tools in seconds, which helps with a good clean, or when organizing contents. You can see full overlay doors and European hinges (fourth picture) on this page. Whilst the doors are rail and stile construction, although these were 3/4" MDF, the panels are only 1/4", cutting the weight considerably. The depth of the stiles is essential to sink the European hinges into correctly.

5. I used the wrong term for the large cabinet's height along the back of my garage. I went and measured and they will be 32"-36" high (top to bottom), 24" to 26" deep, (front to back) and will span 13'-4" across the back of my garage. Can I get away with 6 cabinets to span this length? If not how many cabinets will I need for this span?

I will be using bins in these cabinets also to compartmentalize and get all my stuff managable.

If the cabinets are accurately made, square and properly glued, they will be fine. A fixed central shelf may give reassurance, but is not necessary. I would use a second set of French cleats on larger cabinets.

Finally, here is a view of what I referred to as a "double rabbet." I think they're much more attractive and they're a little bit more "user-friendly" when assembling, as you can clamp them from either direction (or both directions!).



HTH.

I can't think of anything else to add, but if you've any more questions, fire away. Bear in mind the International time difference with UK, it might be overnight before I'll be able to reply, depending when you post.

Ray.

[LarryG]

Use either French cleats and a 1/4" back, or use a 3/4" back. Not both. With French cleats carrying the load, inset as Ray's diagram shows so that the cleat is under the top panel, a 1/4" back is a sufficiently thick diaphragm for the carcase. A 3/4" back will only increase the dead load unnecessarily.

[djenkins]

MDF Wall Cabinets

Guys:

I have finally seen through the fog. Thanks, for all the info! Ray, I appreciate the drawings you posted they really clarified everything.

Thanks again!!

Derrick

[cabinetman]

I agree with Ray on the frameless cabinet. I can't remember the last time I made a FF cabinet. If a FF has some detail necessary for the design of the cabinet then I would do it that way. As for mounting doors, you have the thickness of the carcass to mount the doors. IOW, on the leading edge of the cabinet you can align the door as you please. Below is a basic layout for the parameters of euro hinges and door layout.

[djenkins]

MDF Wall Cabinets

Cabinetman, thanks for the info on the euro hinges. I will use this info when I get to the doors.