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I was just wonderin if anyone had any good online articles/websites/forums that specifically talk about building face frame cabinets or cabinets in general. I am going to be building some for my garage and then try to do a few kitchens and just wnat all the info i can get, i have a few books ordered and am just looking for some online stuff. Thanks.
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There is a wealth on info on the Fine Woodworking site. You do have to pay a membership fee for the year to use it. They have archives of pretty much everything they've published, back to the '70s.
Eddy -
A couple of books that will help are:
Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets by Danny Proulx
Building Kitchen Cabinets by Udo Schmidt
I think that the cabinets in the Proulx book are a bit too basic, but it does give you confidence to get started and modify where you see fit.
The Proulx book includes cut lists for a variety of different sizes of cabinets from a couple of different thicknesses of material, which is helpful.
Good luck!BillComment
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On the matter of books ...
A lot of people swear by Danny Proulx's various books on this and similar topics. Others say they are a little simplistic, and the few I have looked at struck me that way, too; but then I have been detailing cabinets for 36 years in my work (architecture). Might be just what you need, if you're unfamiliar with the basics.
A title to avoid is "Quick And Easy Custom Cabinets" by Anthony Guidice. In this one the author demonstrates (a bit militantly, IMO) his system for building cabinets using nothing but biscuit joinery. While Guidice's approach does indeed appear to be quick and easy, he seems oblivious to the fact the results are BUTT UGLY. They'd be okay for a garage or fishing shack. They're not anything most people would want in a kitchen.LarryComment
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I have to agree there. I was given a copy of that book when I first got a biscuit jointer. I didn't even like the book well enough to give it away to anyone I knew -- I thought it would be a disservice to the whomever ended up with it. I think I finally ended up donating it for a church yard sale.Comment
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Those are actually the exact books that I ordered. They should be here in a couple of days.
I do have background in building cabinets as I am getting a degree in architectual millwork but at my shop at home I dont have equipment to build the frameless cabinets, Euro style, that we are being taught in school. So I was just looking for some books that give me the basics on face frame and also how they are built using everyday tools. Thanks for the suggestions and I'll take a look at that Fine Woodworking.Comment
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Ok, you've got my curiosity going, mojo. What does one need to build a frameless cabinet that isn't on the list for face frame style?
To my knowledge we're talking about panels with dadoes and rabbets in either case. The only difference I can think of is in the hinges, which is solved with a forstner bit.
What am I missing?
JRJRComment
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The frameless type of cabinets are in theory suppose to be more of a precise type of cabinet, the way we are taught. They way our teacher explains it in a frameless type of cabinet the doors have to be more precise as they are going to have to but up into each other and also on the sides of the boxes. When we are building them we are to be within a half millimeter of what the drawings say or we are to do them again. We are just getting into the building of cabinets right now and so i cannot explain too much but will be glad to the more we learn.
Also on another note, the forestner bit would work we have a specified machine made by blum and grass that drill out the hole and put the hinge in its pretty cool.
If you have any other specific questions I will sure try my best to answer them or get the answer for you.Comment
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Ok, that makes sense, mojo. In a practical way, I guess the advice you're getting is good. I make those kinds of judgements in my work frequently - where do I need absolute perfection, and where can I relax?
OTOH, the only difficult thing about cabinets is getting them square. Even face frame cabinets that are not absolutely square run the risk that during installation you'll have problems. So I'm not sure I entirely buy it that you can relax your squareness standard on face frames. You're the one taking the class, though, so I defer to your teachers.
BTW - my brother used to have one of those Blum machines. Very cool. It could do six holes for shelf pins at a time, then convert quickly to the hinge mode you mentioned. A forstner bit is plenty functional for the hinges, though, for a hobbiest.
JRJRComment
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When I started out building cabinets, there wasn't much published as to construction details and materials. There were no PC's. not much in mail out catalogs for supplies. I didn't get to read much about cabinetmaking but then a book might have started out by saying -"Grab a sharp axe and go find a big tree".
Faceframe cabinets should be as accurate as frameless. Door size measurements can be taken after the cabinets are together. As for the millimeter vs. inch/foot controversy, I still believe most common usage for drawings and explanations in the U.S.is still done in inch/foot measurements.
In your research, any information you can retain or have access to as for type of joints, construction methods, layout procedures, and available materials, including choices of hardware, will be your basis for proceeding. Once you have done your preliminary sketch work, or better yet scale drawings, I recommend doing them in a large enough scale to make notes.
After those, make "explosion" type drawings, which I'll call "shop drawings" which show the cabinets, with their members slightly apart, either individually or in groups, in different views (elevations - front/rear, plan views, and maybe including section drawings). These "explosion" type drawings can show how each joint is to be done, size of the pieces, and numbering or lettering of the pieces to transfer to a parts/cut list.
In other words, on paper, you will have all the cabinets drawn with all the machining there is to do on all the pieces. This makes for good reference.
So, when you're reading all your books, keep in mind a method that will be easy for you to follow in the whole process, start to finish.Comment
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I have made lots of frameless cabinets without specialized machinery. I think from your description that your class is using the 32mm system involving precisely spaced holes about 1 1/4 inches apart on the vertical members that are used for the hinges to screw into and also for pegs to hold shelves. If you want to do this at home without the gun drilling tool (or whatever you call the device that drills 7 or more holes at once), Rockler and others sell a jig for a drill that will allow you to drill holes at the right spacing.
Holes on the door for the hinge are easy if you have a drill press with a fence. If not, there is a drill guide for that too.
An experienced cabinet maker would not claim an overlay door is the hardest to fit or requires the most precise tolerances. Inlay doors that need an even space all the way around the door are clearly more difficult (or maybe I should say that a poorly fitted inlay door is easier to spot than an equally poorly fitted full overlay). Usually with a face frame, however, the door is rabbetted along the edges and partially overlays the opening. I would agree with your instructor that tolerances are less critical with this sort of door. For a full overlay or an inset door, I just make them a little oversize and trim to fit. Maybe a factory can cut, joint, and glue up a door and get it to come out within half a millimeter of what size they want but then they have to make the cabinet equally precise. In the real world I think we trim to fit. If you work that way, all you need is a router table, table saw and drill press to make doors for kitchen cabinets (and a router and bits and blades, of course). You would be faster with a full 32mm setup but there is no reason your cabinets cannot look just as good without the $10K+ expense of the specialized tools. Edge banding can be put on with a household iron, for instance. I know because I have. Solid wood edging glued on looks better to me.
JimComment
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Thanks for all your comments and I was not trying to start any debate on which one is more precise just that I think for a first timer doing this without the equipmetn that it would be the way to go.
Thanks for the things to think about cabinetman I have been doing some drawings and labeling them as I go but I do need to do them from all differnt angles to help make them easier to make and assemble.
And like JimD said I was not trying to say that it is impossible by any means to make frameless ones just that it would take way more time and effort to make them look as good.
You guys have been great and I have one more question if anyone could help me. I was wondering what type of drawer door would look good wiht a flat panel door, or a shaker style door I think they are called. Again thanks for all the help.Comment
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Probably a shaker style drawerComment
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mojo
This is the route that we went with the drawerfronts -- to match up with the doors.
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