BTS15 concerns

[Tundra_Man]

I had the 21825 which is about the same saw as the 24883 without the extensions. Long story short, you don't want it over a BT.

It worked OK for what it was and I had gotten used to it's quirks so that I could turn out some decent work, but when I moved up to a BT3100 I found the Ryobi to be a superior saw. Aside from the other advantages, IMHO the SMT alone is worth the price difference of the two saws. I also have a CMS, but prefer the SMT. Any more I only use the CMS for long stock.

[JohnnyTest]

As a honest opinion I checked out every sears table saw they had. I know the exact one that you are talking about. I was not impressed with the rip fence at all on that model, actually any model they had that was under $500 I was not impressed with at all. First the entire thing seemed very cheaply made. The rip fence does not square well on its own, and you also have to realize this those tables that come out from the left and right have no way to determine if they are square. They ride on a bar that pulls out and there is no way to determine if both the front and back are out to the same length, further more unlike the BT the Sears saw doesn't sit on rails, rather it sits on the edge of the table, so when making large cuts your fence has to attach to one of the sliding tables, not very accurate at all. The rip fence has no t-slots at all. It doesn't cut as deep as the BT either.
I'm not trying to just push the BT, just trying to be honest with ya, I spent a good time researching saws and the BT is the best bang for your buck, not only that but it is truely a great saw. The sears saw is something that I feel once someone gets they will want something else, basically it leaves alot to be desired.

[tpratt]

So far, I've check for:

www.Craftsman24883central.com
www.24883central.com

but those sites don't seem to exist.

I was able to find www.craftsman.com and there is a "Craftsman Club Discussion Boards" where you can read posts. If you want to post your own message, you have to visit a Sears and complete a "Craftsman Club Application." The site does not list requirements for Craftsman Club applicants nor does it state whether there is an application fee.

I do suspect that applicants receive plenty of extra offers in the mail.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it's my way--no offense intended.

[MARCUS30]

So just because there is a forum about this saw makes it a good one?? aplications? going in to the store?? more importantly maybe we can talk about ryobi customer service?? I waited on hold for Ryobi yesterday for 14 minutes before I spoke with someone and the woman just kept asking me for my serial number on my saw, I gave it to her and - she said i hadn't sent in the warranty info yet- I said I KNOW i just bought it on SATURDAY! and it's already broken!!! after going around and around with her about what had happened to the rip fence handle nut she refered me to parts and they told me if i wanted it soon i had to pay for it because my warranty info wasn't in yet- AND it would be at least 3-4 weeks before i got it- did i mention i just bought this saw?? on SATURDAY?? I understand it is the inferior BTs15 and the BT3100 i'm sure is a fine saw, but what if something goes wrong? with it? to be honest customer service is important to me- I havent bought a new saw yet still trying to figure it all out- maybe i'm over thinking- but the whole go to sears and get they replace it if it breaks end of the deal sounds good to me-

Tpratt- there are tons of "forums" on the web about all kinds of things- bad things, good things, illegal things, disgusting things..etc- so just because there is a forum doesn't mean it's necessarily good-

I am convinced though that there are a bunch of people in this forum that genuinely like this saw and think it the way to go- i appreciate all of your help and advice- I'm just trying to figure what is best for me..[?]

[LarryG]

quote:Originally posted by MARCUS30

I'm just trying to figure what is best for me..[?]

And rightly so. It's your money, your shop, your woodworking projects. If you ain't happy, it matters not whether anyone else is happy.

I won't try to be an apologist for Ryobi's customer service department. I will note that the kind of treatment you got seems all but universal when dealing with Corporate America these days. I am so fed up with hold music and voice-driven menus and reps who don't know their own product that I virtually never both trying to call a manufacturer if I have a problem.

As regards the existence of this forum, I think the point there is that there are precious few table saws (offhand, I know of only one) that offer the kind of support group you've found here. No, this forum does not make the saw itself any better but it sure as **** can make your use of the saw a lot better, a lot more enjoyable.

Are there a lot of cheerleaders here for the BT3x00? Well, yeah. Are we blind to its faults, its limitations? I guess a few of us are, but my observation is that most are not. Either way, ask yourself this: are we all saying the BT is a great saw because we happen to own one? Or do we own a BT because it's a great saw?

Interesting question, no?

[JR]

Marcus,

Your point about Sears customer service is a good one. Like Larry, I had just about completely forgotten about that feature of retail life, but recently have been visiting the local Sears. The best thing about Sears, in my view, is that you can get parts for everything they ever sold, and it's easy to do. The second best thing is that they have a pretty good selection of pretty good tools in the retail store.

But back on point. The BT3100 is, without doubt, the best value table saw on the market. Its price/capability equation has such a siginificantly different result from anything else that you have to think long and hard about it, especially since price seems to be a big part of your requirement. If the Sears-type customer service skews the equation for you, you need to be prepared to spend several hundred more dollars for a table saw that will provide the functionality of the BT. Or spend about the same for a saw you wouldn't be as happy with, but you'd be doing business with a company you're more comfortable with.

A little navel contemplation may be in order, to find the proper result.

Good luck!

JR

[JohnnyTest]

Made some more cuts on the saw last night, the sliding miter table alone make the saw worth the money hands down. Nothing but impressed with this saw from day 1.

[Tundra_Man]

quote:Originally posted by MARCUS30

So just because there is a forum about this saw makes it a good one??

Having a forum about a saw doesn't make the saw a good one, rather the fact that the forum exists outside of corporate sponsorship is evidence that the saw is a good one. The forum doesn't cause the saw to be good; the saw is good and caused the forum.

That being said, the BT does have it's weak spots. There are various people to whom I wouldn't recommend the purchase of this saw. One of the weak spots, as you mentioned, is Ryobi's spotty customer service. If this is a deciding factor, then you may be happier with another brand of saw. This is lower down on the list of importance for others, so they accept this weakness in lieu of the other benefits of the saw.

I ride a Yamaha Road Star and frequent a forum dedicated to the Road Star. They're having the same issues: many people love the bike but have had such bad customer service from Yamaha that it's not worth it to them and they purchase a different brand. Then there are others who accept the fact that Yamaha's service is less than stellar but it's not enough of a factor to make us purchase a different bike.

My point is, you're going to find this disparity in any category of merchandise with which you're dealing. Product performance does not always equate with adequate customer service, and vice-versa. Some companies are excellent to work with, some aren't. You need to decide what's important for you and base your purchase on that criteria.

[Tool Fool]

Marcis - Before you make another purchase, you might want to at least take a look at the Delta TS350 on sale at Lowes for $259. It doesn't have an SMT (or a dedicated website ), but it does have two solid cast iron wings, a quiet induction motor, a decent fence, and straight forward simple rugged design. It might not be for you, but at least you'll know after checking it out.

[schlemer]

When I first bought my BTS15 last April, I set it up only to find that the blade when raised would hit the throat plate (the motor had not been assembled properly from the factory). Since there is no way to adjust it, I had no choice but to return it to HD. I did like the BT3100 but I am just getting started in my hobby and wanted to get my feet wet first in an inexpensive way. After many trips to Sears, I've come to realize that Craftsman tablesaws under $500. are worthless as compared to the Ryobi line. Being new to all of this even I could see how cheaply made those machines were. The rip fences felt as though they were made of recycled coke cans. The table's base may tend to tip over when cutting larger stock (the base was just too narrow) and the riving knife seemed to be misaligned on all the floor models.

Finally, I went back to HD and traded my BTS15 for another and all I can say is for the money it is a far superior tablesaw than any Craftsman (an I actually like CM tools, I own thier miter saw which I absolutly love) in the same price range. The rip fence is very solid (and doesn't move). I love the black teflon top and the SMT is wonderful. Some folks have said that the BTS is based off the BT10, but I feel that it is a poor mans BT3100. Also, I've cut some large stock on it and the table does not move at all. My only complaint is that I wished that it had two seperate handles for blade adjustment and bevel. I did encounter one minor problem when the bevel handle did not want to turn over to 0 degrees. After loosening the screw over the handle I was able to make the proper adjustment. I still don't like the two functions on the same handle, but aside from that I think it is a fine saw for the beginner who may not need anything beyond a basic tablesaw.

BTW- don't let the SMT fall too hard, the four plastic tabs that hold the bottom of it break easily. Fourtunaly for me I was able to swap it for my retuned unit which is now being used as a floor model.

[gmack5]

Has anybody bothered to point out to Marcus that a version of the BT3000 was sold by Sears for several years and parts for it are available from Sears?
It was "Craftsman" branded and carried the Model #22811, I believe.
The parts for that saw fit the BT3100/BT3000, except for two parts that I know of (they only fit the BT3000), the two are the Locker Bracket and the shims.
Everything else is interchangeable between the Sears model #22811 and the BT3000/3100
That's less than $20 worth of parts that you can buy a spare set of and keep on hand in case anything breaks.
If parts availablity is your main concern, you can get parts for the BT3000/BT3100 from Sears. [^]
As an example, take a look at this post: http://www.bt3central.com/forum/topi...rchTerms=22811

[greggums]

Hey there, I have had my BT15 since last summer and it has worked very well. Nothing broke, and I lost the start key. Got a replacement very quick and no problem from Ryobi captive source.

I am getting used to no miter slot but it helps to think of the miter table as a built-in sled. Just yesterday @ Sears and I saw a lot of miter table saws, even one that looked almost identical to my BT15 !

Greggums Oak