table top - which direction do joints run?

[footprintsinconc]

my question is, when making a table top (patio table or work bench), which direction should the glue joints run in? do they run parallel to the length of the table or should they run parallel to the short direction?

the table top is going to be made out of pine 2x4's planed down to 1" thick. currently hd has 2x4's 48" long in cull wood (tons of it). if i bought this, i could run the glue joints in the short direction, but does this pose a problem structurally or in application?

thanks,

[Timmah80]

You would have to put iin support beams the length of the table top if you join the boards the short way to prevent sagging. You also may have to use a beefier support beam to hold the boards straight when weight is added the top will want to flex the joints.

[SARGE..g-47]

Evening footprint...

As far as running the glue joints in the short direction, Timmah gave you the solution. In one word I will second him... Don't!

If you really need to economize and take advantage of the shorts HD is selling, you could run them lenght-wise and either lap joint em.. box joint em or finger joint em.

I once out of curiousity built a very sturdy work-bench from scrap shorts that were no longer than 14" maximum with some as little as 8". I had some assistance as I have excess to a friends bussiness that has a commercial finger jointer he allowed me to use though.

That was about 12 years ago and everyone told me it wouldn't stand the test of time. It's still working 12 years latter in a friends workshop and used every day at this point after he retired from Delta Air Lines 2 years ago. And the interesting point is he has to true it (flatten) it much less often than the standard work-bench's I have built for others. Go figure?

Regards...

[crokett]

How long is your table going to be? You could make the table top using random length wood - think like a wood floor. I'd think it plenty strong enough, esp if you did say a tounge and groove on the ends.

[cabinetman]

Here's a suggestion. You could use the short pieces and use a "half lap" joint to end join (see pic below). And under it all, screw/glue them to a 3/4" piece of MDF or plywood. That way you would have a flat, supported top.



A THING OF BEAUTY IS A JOY FOREVER - John Keats

[footprintsinconc]

thank you everyone!

sarge, you have convinced me that i could use pine for a workbench table top. i think i will keep it at 1.25" thick as opposed to 1" as i had thought before. now, running it in the long direction, did you just support the top at the end only or did you build a cabinet under it which supported the top in the middle and the ends?

the bench size and the patio table size is going to be 36" x 6'.

i got the idea from our pine dining table that we have had for the last 15yrs. it has the joints running in the short direction. however, since the middle portion of the table flips in and the table can be shortened, the table top has two tongued pine rails attached to the bottom, hence its supports.

i was afraid that the suggestion would be finger join ends and run it the length of the table. i would imagine that a router bit would be required for finger jointing the ends, correct?

cabinetman: did you suggest that i end join them with half lap, but then under the whole table top, use a 3' x 6' mdf board/plywood?

i agree with you, Timmah80, about the short direction support.

i have been thinking about this and correct me if i am wrong.
A- for the patio table, its going to have support around the perimeter, so that table top having a ration of width to length of 2, will most likely span the shorter direction. this table wont see the loads that a work bench would see either. so in this case, the short direction will be fine.

B- for the work bench, i should run the boards in the long direction and end joint them and offset the joints like a wood floor as suggested. i will be building a cabinets under this table so there will be more supports running the short direction, so the long direction would make sense.

any suggestion?

[JR]

I recently built a bench top using the technique shown by cabinetman. I built a ladder frame of 2x4s, half-lapped. Then a sheet of 3/4" plywood screwed to the 2-bys. Then sheet of MDF (1/2" I think) attached with carpet tape. Finally I wrapped the whole thing in clear pine (hardwood would be more durable).

I think the trick to a workbench is in the frame/cabinet. You want something that's solid, doesn't move, and doesn't rack. If you're bench is going to be against a wall, you could put a cleat along the wall, just below the tabletop. Make the top deeper than the cabinet, allowing the back to overhang the cleat. Drive screws through the plywood/2x4 sandwich into the cleat and you've got a solid setup.

If the bench will be freestanding then you have to pay special attention to the construction of the cabinet frame. Sarge has posted some good pics of his benches. You might try a search to find those.

JR

[JimD]

If you run the boards the 3 foot direction, you must also remember that the growth of the top will be much greater and will affect the 6 foot dimension. This will have to be accomidated in the supports that you will need. If you run the boards the 6 foot direction, you have only 3 foot of expansion/contraction distance so 1/2 the wood movement. You also won't need much support with the boards running the 6 foot dimension.

You can finger joint with a router bit, at least I've seen them for sale. I don't think they are cheap - probably cheaper to buy some long 2x4s for the top.

Jim

[SARGE..g-47]

Finger joints by router would take a very considerable amount of time. Box joints using a dado would be much quicker. Whatever you do.. if the joint is going to be a significant depth, don't try to take too much stock at one time to shorten the process. Better to take longer than allow the evil spirits an opportunity to rear their head and bite ya cause you were in a hurry.

Regards...

[footprintsinconc]

well, based on all the above suggestions, i am not going to get those 2x4's and will rethink the table tops. ofcourse, jim, you are right, longer 2x4's are definately chaeper , i just need to calmly think things out.

it sure is tough to curb the desire to shorten the process, but like you said sarge, "Better to take longer than allow the evil spirits an opportunity to rear their head and bite ya cause you were in a hurry."

thank you everyone for your helpful advice!

[linear]

Right on. I learned it "fully planned is half done, half planned is half screwed." Substitute the synonym of your choice for the last word there.

[footprintsinconc]

i liked that, got remember to use it next time!