veneering side of cabinet

[agent511]

I am refacing my bathroom cabinets. I built new doors - cherry rail and stile, with cherry 1/4" mdf-core panels, shaker style.

Now i have to cover the one exposed side of the cabinet. 21" deep, 32" high. I have some 2 ply cherry veneer that I will use (one large piece). My first use of veneer.

1. What glue and method to use? I read that contact cement will be too lumpy for this non-factory application by an unskilled person on a vertical surface. I was going to roll out yellow glue. I also have powdered polyester resin glue that I could use. Will it hold without the ability to clamp anything over it? Or will it need contact cement just to hold it on? Since there is nothing to clamp, I plan to use a board with a rounded-over edge to press out the air. Is this a plan?

3. The exposed front edge - I planned on cutting it pretty close (about 1/8" over), then finishing the edge after it is glued with a flush-cutting router bit with a bearing. Will this cut clean, or will it tear? Almost the whole edge (except for part of the kick-plate area) will be going with (parallel to) the grain.

[drumpriest]

You might consider a PSA veneer. (Pressure sensitive adhesive), or try the iron on glue for veneering. Highland hardware sells it, as well as some other places online. You use an iron to smooth out the veneer and heat up the glue at the same time. Using a towel between the iron and veneer will keep it from burning.

Yellow glue won't do well without clamping pressure. Contact Cement would work fine if you were able to do it horizontally, and use stickers to place the veneer, removing one at a time and using a J roller to get the bubbles out. I doubt that you'll be able to use it to any great affect on a verticle surface.

The flush trim bit should do fine trimming the veneer, you might try one with a bit of an angle to it. (shear angle).

[agent511]

All good ideas, but I already acquired the veneer as I had described. Are there any ideas for using the veneer that I own, or are you saying that it is impossible to attach the veneer I have to the side of the cabinet.

Today's Graham McCUllough column happens to be on this topic. This is what he said:

"VERTICAL SURFACES

The material that is relevant here, is paper thin. It's made this way because it is easy to handle and it is used for vertical surfaces that don't get the abuse or wear and tear of a counter top.

Re-facing doors and drawers with Pionite or similar products is a relatively easy job. You can actually do it in place. Remove the handle or knob. Rough sand the surface. Cut a piece of laminate to size (table saw, jig saw, band saw). Apply water borne contact cement to both surfaces (following glue directions), then press into place. A *******-cut (not a swear word) file will remove the rough edges."


Is water-borne contact cement standard contact cement??

[kwgeorge]

Although I am not a big fan of contact cement and veneer I think in your application that is what I would do. To get the flattest and most consistent application of contact cement I like to use a rubber roller that was made for the printing industry. I have several sizes and they are made by a company called Speedball. When rolling out the veneer after it is applied I like a harder roller like one made from hardwood or ceramic. I also would hope that you will edge with something so someone or something rubbing against the veneered panel will not pull and tear the edges over time.

A few thoughts anyway.

Ken

[cabinetman]

OK, here we go. Some years to stuff in a paragraph. You can buy my video on this procedure for $5,000.00 or just read this for free. First, block sand the end to just scuff it up. You can use either solvent base or water base contact cement. First, take your veneer sheet and cut it 3/8" to 1/2" longer than the height and width. Place it against the wall and to the floor where you want it to go. Put a mark on the wall and the veneer so you know where the alignment is. If you have good ventilation, solvent base dries faster. Using a brush, cut along the wall and floor with a brush grade of contact cement about a 2" strip. Then with a roller for adhesives (available at the BORG) roll on the rest of the end. Don't roll back and forth many times, just one or two passes per swath. You don't want to load up the glue or get puddles or globs (WW term). Then take the veneer and roll out the back side with as smooth a film as you can get. Don't worry about how much time you have. It takes about 15 - 20 minutes for it to flash dry. When it is just a little tacky, you're ready. I've forgotten about pieces for over an hour, and they still stick real good.

Now for the fun part. Take some 36" dowels 1/2" minimum diameter, enough to place them about 3" apart vertically. Stand up the first dowel about 2" from the back wall and stick it to the side of the cabinet about 2" off the floor. It should stick somewhat to the contact cement. If it doesn't let it touch the floor. Then place the next one about 3" from that one and keep placing them till you get to the front edge. Take your veneer sheet check it for any debris and check the end panel for debris, and slowly and carefully place it against the dowels so that your mark on the wall lines up with the one on the sheet. Than gently press the sheet along the wall top to bottom and make sure your bottom edge is where it's supposed to be. Then start pressing the sheet down as you pull the dowels out from back to front. You can use your hand for this. If you can try pulling them up to get them out. When all the dowels are out use a block of wood and smooth out the veneer by pressing the edge up and down the sheet from back to front. Make sure all the edges are pressed down flat.

As for trimming, a trim router won't go all the way to the wall or the floor. You can use a mill file by keeping the file flat to the edge but at a slight angle off the face of the cabinet. What you will be doing is using the serrated edge of the file to file off (break) the veneer clean to the front edge by using sharp smooth strokes. Make sure the file is at an angle to the veneer so that the handle is forward of the tip when pushing the file. Only file on the push stroke. After the major waste is off, go back and smooth the edges with a file.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[agent511]

Thank you all for the responses, and esp to cabinetman for $5000 worth of easy-to-follow and complete advice. Sounds like the hardest part will be to remove the dowels!

I bought the water-based contact cement at Lowes, and have the roller. I will take the new advice about cutting in first - makes sense, and getting some dowels. And the idea about the alignment marks - excellent!

[agent511]

Well , the web site was down, and I needed more help - so I had to go elsewhere. (woodnet)

I worked on putting the veneer up this weekend, using DAP Weldwood non-flammable contact cement (neoprene rubber formula). Applied multiple coats to both the veneer and the cabinet side, waited proper time, and carefully placed it knowing it would instantly adhere without chance to correct.

The opposite happened - there was no adherence at all. I called DAP today - they really had no good advice, and had no previous reports of this batch being problematic.

I peeled the 'membrane' off the cabinet, left the coating on the veneer, and used regular solvent based (gel) contact cement today - and it adhered instantly and firmly. No problem at all with the vertical surface (nor can I think why there would be). No problem with bubbles, no problems with lumps. Used a roller to apply the glue, and after sticking up the veneer, I used the rounded edge of a block of wood to press it out with maximum pressure.

So the good news is this part of the job is done. The bad news is that the non-solvent based contact cement was a total failure, and the mystery as to why is unsolved.

Now I need to trim the overhang veneer. I plan on using a router bit, but I have some apprehensions since I have about 1/2" to 3/4" hanging over, and i have concerns that as I get the cut started with the router bit, that it will grab and splinter and hack up the veneer.I could use a file for the whole job, as cabinetman sugested, but I am thinking about just using the file for the parts that the router cannot get to.

[cabinetman]

With that much overhang a file is a safer bet. You're right, in that the bit could catch the veneer and break it back past the cabinet edge. Or, what gets routed off will load up between the base and the bit. You also stand the chance of tipping the router and gouging into the cabinet. If you rout, leave as little of the cutting edge exposed as possiple, so if for some reason you tip it it won't ruin your work. Using a file has it's pluses. You'll develop a "feel" for it.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[agent511]

With all my concerns about the router, I will defintely try the file first. I am concerned about a fuzzy edge. I will let all know how it goes. Certainly the much safer way to go.

[agent511]

update - i trimmed the overhanging veneer

I trimmed the overhanging veneer from the vertical surface of the bathroom cabinet, trying different methods.

I tried using brand new double-cut mill file - I found that this bent over then cut away the veneer by mashing and then tearing fibers, leaving a fuzzy edge - exactly what my concern was with the file method. I could not get overly aggressive with this so as not to file into the cabinet.

I tried a sharp box-cutting blade - this worked but was not accurate - it either left a little overhang, or sometimes cut into the existing front face of the cabinet.

There are veneer cutters that work with a single edged blade in a plastic jig - I figured they would not work well with the double thickness 2-ply veneer, so I did not buy one, but I now believe it would have been fine.

Finally I got out the router with the flush-trimming carbide bit. I had been afraid that this would be too aggresive, hard to control, and rip into or tear away the remaining veneer. Especially since I left a 1/2 to 3/4" overhang. So I started using it on an area that I had used the box cutter on first - and I had no problems with the router. Then I got brave and plunged into an area where it was 3/4" exposed - worked like a charm with a perfect edge, with no splintering whatsoever. This was the premier way to go.

At the ends of the cabinet, I finished by using the box cuttter and worked my way carefully to the edge.

My veneer was two-ply cherry - each ply in opposite directions. Your mileage may vary, but in my case, there was no question that the router (or perhaps the veneer -cutting razor jig) is the way to go on this.