which joint to use

[agent511]

I am refacing cabinets. For the doors, I am getting, (after much wavering), the freud 99-036 matched set tongue and groove router bits.

This question is for covering the exposed sides of the cabinets. I want the wood frame to be as thin as possible. Currently the cabinet is what I believe is called frameless - the doors cover everything. By adding something to the side, there will be new exposed wood from the front, which will change the look somewhat. If I make the door stiles wider to cover this, then the hinges will not work properly, or the door will jam against the new side additions. Please correct me if there is another angle to this that I am missing.

So I need to make the sides as slim as possible. Since I am using 1/4" plywood, then the slimmest I could make the rails/stiles is 3/8", with a 1/8" reveal. If i wanted to match the doors, then I need a 1/4" reveal, so then they would be 1/2" thick. Either way, I will rabbet the back of these 1/4" for the panel.

how do I join the rails and stiles? Coming to mind is:
a. 1/2 laps. and
b. biscuits. I think the biscuits would be easier.

Any opinions on this?

[Wood_workur]

Why don't you use veneer to cover the exposed edge?

Oh, and to joint the rails and stiles, putting a tonge on the endgrain of the rails is what is normally done.

[Tamarack]

"Full Overlay" hinges are available to keep the sides covered, if you so desire. I've been looking into this sort of project, and the Euro cup hinges look like my best solution. I'm amazed at the variety available-inset, half overlay, full overlay, different degrees of opening angle, etc.

Paul in Idaho

[agent511]

tamarak - thanks - I'll look into those hinges. But I am guessing that they are what is already installed on the cabinet. It is already a frameless full overlay cabinent. The sides are , I guess 3/4" thick. I am adding a side panel that will be another 3/8" or 1/2" thick. It is the edge of this side panel that should be covered by the door. I don't think the standard full overlay hinges will accomodate this extra depth. Case sides are never that thick.

Woodworkur - I started to write something else, but I think I know what you are saying, and it sounds like a plan. After rabbeting the rail, 1/4" from bottom of the the long edge, then rabbet 1/8" off the top of the end-grain edge. THe tongue would only be 1/4" to fit the rabbet, though. I guess I could 'over rabbet' the last two inches of the stile deeper, and use a longer tongue on the rail. I got it. Thanks!

[Tamarack]

You might be able to mortise inside your existing sides (where the hinge attaches) equal to the depth of what you're adding, and the full overlay hinges would still work.
The doors would need to be a little wider to compensate for the added width.
Paul

[agent511]

Tamarack - I was thinking about that idea myself. I would not only need to make the 35mm round hole deeper, but also the full length of the rectangular portion of the hinge. I will also need to see if the fastening portion would be under the rail or stile of the side panel. If not, there would not be much to hold the screws - just a thinned out mdf side of the case along with a thin piece of plywood. If that is the case, I think I'd just let the wood show.

[RayintheUK]

Making the 35mm socket deeper will have no effect - it is a mortice for the hinge to sit in and will not have any effect on how the hinge works. Changing the DBE (distance of bore from edge) will have an effect, however.

Morticing the mounting plate will not work - the inner rear edge of the door will foul the cabinet carcass when opening the door.

European hinges can cope with cabinet carcasses up to 32mm wide. Have a look here (towards the bottom of the second page) for details.

HTH

Ray.

[agent511]

Ray - I think what I could do is to temporarily stick a piece of wood on the side, and play with the hinge adjustment on the existing door to see if it will compensate. If it does cope with up to 32 mm, I could be OK, since 3/4" casing plus 1/2" addition would = 31.8mm. If it doesn't work, I may need to replace the hinges with some that do, or else live with some exposed cherry edge. Either outcome should be satisfactory. Thanks.

[RayintheUK]

Ray - I think what I could do is to temporarily stick a piece of wood on the side, and play with the hinge adjustment on the existing door to see if it will compensate. If it does cope with up to 32 mm, I could be OK

Unfortunately, hinge adjustment alone won't do it - you'd have to re-bore the 35mm sockets further away from the edge too, because once the adjustment bottoms out, there's no way of getting it to go further back. You could always bore a 35mm socket in a piece of scrap, starting 1/4" more in from the edge than your existing setting on the doors, then slap the hinge back on, add your piece of wood and see what happens. Let us know how you get on, please.

Ray.

[agent511]

if I bore the 35mm hole further from the edge, Ray, it will definietely cover the side of the cabinet, but won't there then be clearance problems with the edge of the door whacking the cabinet since there is more 'hanging over'?

[Popeye]

Just a thought but.... why not put a decorative edge on the exposed end panels. At least on the stiles and bottom rail. Pat

[agent511]

That is an idea, like maybe a chamfer. I had originally planned on doing the shaker style doors with a chamfer, which is frequently seen these days (please don't post that 'genuine' shaker doors do not have that, there is not attempt to be 'genuine' here.). Had I stayed with that plan, the matching chamfer on the end panels would have been a great combination.

[RayintheUK]

if I bore the 35mm hole further from the edge, Ray, it will definietely cover the side of the cabinet, but won't there then be clearance problems with the edge of the door whacking the cabinet since there is more 'hanging over'?

Yes, that's entirely possible, which is why the hinge suppliers state that the use of their hinges on carcasses over 24mm thick is "Trial application." That's why a piece of scrap with a hinge fitted will give you an idea before you commit to 35mm sockets in the door.

You may be able to overcome any such fouling by easing the hinges forward on there horizontal adjusters (on the mounting plate, where the slot of the hinge arm connects to the mount). If this works, then you have to judge whether the resultant gap between the door and the carcass (vertically) is acceptable or not. If acceptable, job done.

If not, revert to inset hinges, or look into using European face frame hinges, which might also work in this application, especially if the side panels could protrude forwards. I can't say that they will from experience, as I've never used them, but it might be worth a look.