BT3100 Table Flatness

[kw]

How flat are everyone's tables (alone and all three together). I had bought a BT 3100 and returned it because I had problems with the table flatness. So before I go and pick up another I figured I should find out if my experience was a fluke.

kw

[Black wallnut]

I've never measured mine and have no need to. As per design my SMT is slightly higer than the main and Acc. tables.

[kw]

Black Wallnut....thanks for replying quickly. So you never checked the flatness of your main and accessory table? I am just trying to see what is acceptable tolerances for the BT3100. Also, you are right the SMT should be slightly higher than the other tables.... so how flat are your other 2 tables?

kw

[cwsmith]

All three of my tables are relative flat. As mentioned, the SMT is just slightly higher (1/32" approx) than the main table. The accessory table is visually even with the main table. Using a stainless steel 24-inch rule I've checked both front-back and left-right and the gap is negligible (maybe a few thousands). I didn't bother getting out the feeler guage because quite honestly I don't see this a big deal. Afterall, we're cutting wood, not trying to do precision machining. I realize that others may differ in their opinion.

To me, the most concern falls with squaring the fence and the SMT with the blade. In both cases I was happily surprised to see that "out of the box" my particular BT3100 was right on. There is just a slight side-play on the SMT that measures about 1/32" or less. I'm not sure this will affect the crosscut
to any great measure. We shall see once we have the shop completely set up and see how square my cuts are.

I hope this helps,

CWS

[JimD]

My tables also have no visual lack of flatness. The areas of the accessory table which contact the rails show signs of being machined as do the areas of the top casting where the rails attach. I think Ryobi at least attempts to control dimensions critical to flatness and just missed something on your first BT3100. My guess would be the casting that makes up the top warped or was damaged.

If you want the SMT closer to the same height as the other tables, there is a thin plastic piece on the back to helps it slide that you can remove. I did and it is now just a little lower than the main table. Still slides well enough for me.


Jim

[kw]

Thanks again to everyone for the input...it is appreciated. Also, I called Ryobi today and asked what the table flatness tolerances are for the BT3100. I was told .016" is the tolerance and if I was not happy with the table flatness of the new saw I could swap them for another set. So now that I have this info let me tell you the FULL story lol. So here it is, bought a BT3100 was not happy with the table flatness and there was quite a bit of play in the SMT on the saw I bought. So I returned it to HD got a refund...saved some $$$ and bought a Ridgid TS3650.... supposed to be more accurate and obviously more powerful (as well as heavy...almost 300lbs.). So pick up the saw (with some help) bring it home and start assembly. Everything is well made and seems fine until it comes time to attach the extension wings. Then the fun begins... so I follow the manuals (printed and online) and attach the wings as per instructions. Well I just cant get the wing surfaces to mount flush with the main table surface. Soo one extension sags in the rear and the other extension is high in the rear.... so i thought the tables may be twisted...nope. I check the extensions with my straight edge and they are flat side to side, front to back, and on the diagonals. Then after doing some reading in the Table Saw Book I decided to try and shim the extensions with paper. That helped some but not as much as i would have liked. So then I removed the extensions and checked the edges of the main table and the extensions to make sure there was no excess casting that would keep the tables from mating together.... they seemed clean and smooth. So the I check to see if the edges were square... they were close but not perfect. So now I am quite frustrated so I check the main table for flatness.... af first it is seemed flat on all planes except one diagonal, but upon closer inspection I could see several rays of light from under the straight edge....the top seems to vary from .01 to .02 . Ok sooo I call Ridgid and ask the toleraces for table flatness....they dont know and say they will call back. While I waited I also emailed Ridgid the same question. While waiting for the Ridgid response I called 4 Woodcraft locations asking them what they knew of flatness tolerances only to get answers from .001 to .02 .....to is should be perfect. So I called Jet/Powermatic and spoke with one of their technicians who told me .016 was the error tolerance even on their $3000 powermatic cabinet saw. So now i have a starting point.... then ridgid emails and says the same .016. and just to confirm that I called ridgid again to see if i would get the same answer and i did .016 . So then I called Ryobi and they tell me their tolerances are .016. Also, Ridgid and Ryobi both seem to be "one world technologies" or something like that...dont really remeber. So here is my point ...... for me it does not seem worth it to pay the extra $$ for the Ridgid when the accuracy tolerances are similar. I make picture frames and small boxes. I thought the Ridgid would give me a significant increase in accuracy......guess what it does not. So now I will return it and pick another BT3100 and save over $200. If you need the power and want the weight the ridgid is nice, but you may have to return it until u get a flat top. Who knows maybe I just got the bad one...check it out and make your own conlusion.

Thanks for the info
kw

[agent511]

kw - I also read your posts on the ridgid forum. The bt3100 and the TS3650 are two very different saws that differ in major ways.

Somebody put it well in the other forum when they said we are not working with machining metal. I think IMHO that you are really obsessing over this tolerance issue, which seems to be within specs anyhow, and seems to be the same tolerance for all the saws. I can't imagine many cuts where the slight deviation at the rear of the extension table would affect the cut.

If you want a lighter saw and want to save $200, then go for the BT3100. But don't choose it because you feel that since the table tolerance is the same, then the saws are the same, and therefore you may as well buy the cheaper saw. That is not what differentiates the saws.

So that will make 2 saws that you will have returned that are essentially non-defective, and will now be sold to someone else (lucky someone!) at a loss to the store. I know that many people on this forum thinks thats perfectly cool, that these stores 'make too much money anyway' . I guess I just have a different mind-set of fairness.

[kw]

agent 511,

you are absolutely right ...... they are 2 different saws. lol i know i had my hands on both. maybe i am obsessing i wont deny that possibilty, but i really did expect a little more from the ridgid. certainly it is a more substantial saw with more power and "i" expected more accuracy. to be honest i was/am disappointed with both the ridgid and the ryobi. i really was hoping the TS3650 would satisfy me... but it did have tolerance issues ... i suppose you would have to see it with your own eyes to really understand.... like i said before maybe i just got a bad one. and yes it is not machining metal; however, there still has to be a certain level of precision/quality that was just not present in that paricular top. i called local woodcraft stores, called other table saw manufacturers, and spoke with more experienced woodworkers to ask their opinions and then made my decision. i dont regret it ...if the ridgid had a good top i would not even be talking about it. my brother helped me in setting up both saws ........he even commented that the ridgid's top was more troublesome than the BT's. so now my plan is to get a BT and live with it for the year while saving money for a hybrid or cabinet saw. as for the HD losing money on my returns... i dont believe they will. i have worked in various retail stores (including a hardware store) and we were able to send returned items back to the supplier or manufacturer for credit. sometimes the value of the item is credited without the physical product even being returned....so the store gets the credit and then the item is sold after inventory at a clearance price.
thanks again to everyone for your comments.

kw

[agent511]

Perhaps I was a little harsh in my previous comments, not being able to see the saw myself, as you say. If you are concerned with overall accuracy of your cuts, you will be more happy in the short as well as the long run with the TS3650, regardless of the table issue. And you already have made the outlay, and have the saw set up, all 300 lbs of it! I would recommend you stay with the TS at this point.

Remember, you returned the bt in the first place for greater problems (table as well as SMT problems). Imagine how you will feel if you lug back the TS, get another BT, and find new quality issues with the BT!

The Ridgid has a lot more in common with the more expensive saws than it has to the BT.

BTW, perhaps someone who really knows these saws has not chimed in yet. I bought my ridgid used and already set up. But it sounds to me that if the extension hangs down in the rear, or hangs high in the rear, yet is square and flat in every dimension,you need to loosen the attachment bolts, push it up or down a little, then retighten. I don't see where shimming could come into play - that would be if the extension hung down or up towards the outside right or left edges, not towards the back. I must be missing something here!

Yes, BTW, you are most likely right about HD getting credit from the manufacturer. But somebody is taking a hit - in this case the manufacturer.

[Shipwreck]

Flatness

I'm not "JOE PRO" about tolerences, but it seems to me that if the parting line at the main table and wings are smooth (doesnt catch), then thats 1/2 the battle. I take my thumb nail and drag it over the parting lines, and it should not catch.

Unless a bowed, or cupped wing or table affected the saws ability to cut squarely, I would'nt worry over it.

As far as shimming wings to get them level...........thats a given with alot of saws. I placed a .014 shim on my left wing if the 22114 to get it level. I had a .008 shim under the right wing. Some of the old timers I have asked say that its not uncommon.

My main concern safety wise, is to get the parting lines as close/smooth as possible , so that a piece of wood with a dressed edge doesn't catch.

As far as the BT3100 goes, you cant measure all 3 together because the SMT is made to be a tad higher than the right wing and main table.

[kw]

The moving and disassembly of 300lbs of of saw is quite the pain You are correct the Ridgid does have more in common with higher priced saws than the BT. Both are great points with merit...I will take a little more time to think it through. Thanks again for the input!

kw

[kw]

I made my final decision...well circumstances helped. Just recently my grandfather gave me a benchtop table saw that he no longer needs. So I returned the TS3650 and decided not to buy another BT3100. I am going to use the benchtop saw until I can afford a hybrid saw...craftsman or delta. Thanks again to everone for all the help and input!

kw