Question on jointing knotty lumber

[Anna]

Is it safe to use a jointer to square up 2x4 and 4x4 firs? There are knots on some of the lumber, and I'm not sure if I should go ahead with using them. I'm new to woodworking (is that obvious?). I took a short course in woodworking and really enjoyed learning to use the table saw, jointer, planer, etc. I'm planning out my first workbench, and I found a plan online where he used 2x4s on edge glued and clamped together to build a butcher block top.

If I can't use the jointer to four-square the 2x4s, I guess I'll go with the plywood top instead. I just thought this might be a nice project to get myself used to gluing, clamping and using the biscuit joiner.

Thanks for any advice.

[mdutch]

Is it safe to use a jointer to square up 2x4 and 4x4 firs? There are knots on some of the lumber, and I'm not sure if I should go ahead with using them. I'm new to woodworking (is that obvious?). I took a short course in woodworking and really enjoyed learning to use the table saw, jointer, planer, etc. I'm planning out my first workbench, and I found a plan online where he used 2x4s on edge glued and clamped together to build a butcher block top.

If I can't use the jointer to four-square the 2x4s, I guess I'll go with the plywood top instead. I just thought this might be a nice project to get myself used to gluing, clamping and using the biscuit joiner.

Thanks for any advice.

Well, the butcher-block top is certainly a classic plan. I'd avoid jointing anything with loose knots.

That being said, if this is your first workbench, why not use either a solid-core door from a salvage yard laminated to a sheet of 3/4 MDF, or use two laminated layers of 3/4 MDF instead. Top either substrate with 1/4" hardboard. The hardboard polished surface gives you a smooth work area and if it gets damaged you can pull it off and replace the top sheet easily.

This workbench gets you started for very little money, and will give you enough work area to learn how to foursquare knotty wood, or how to edge-glue book-match-grain hardwood (much more exciting!)

Unless of course you're itching to four-square some 2x4s and have lots of clamps! That's why we fight to defend our Freedom

[Anna]

Well, the butcher-block top is certainly a classic plan. I'd avoid jointing anything with loose knots.

That being said, if this is your first workbench, why not use either a solid-core door from a salvage yard laminated to a sheet of 3/4 MDF, or use two laminated layers of 3/4 MDF instead. Top either substrate with 1/4" hardboard. The hardboard polished surface gives you a smooth work area and if it gets damaged you can pull it off and replace the top sheet easily.

This workbench gets you started for very little money, and will give you enough work area to learn how to foursquare knotty wood, or how to edge-glue book-match-grain hardwood (much more exciting!)

Unless of course you're itching to four-square some 2x4s and have lots of clamps! That's why we fight to defend our Freedom

Using either plywood or MDF is definitely an option, and probably the path of least resistance. I was just enamored with the idea of making a butcher block out of pine or fir. Let's just say that at this point, my ambitions are far outstripping my actual skills. What I really want to build are a bunch of built-in shelves and cabinetry, but I do acknowledge that I probably have a ways to go before I'll start those.

Just to clarify the jointing question, though: If the knots are not loose, it is then okay to use the jointer and the planer? I really don't want to ruin my blades if I can avoid it.

[sacherjj]

I picked up a solid core door are Lowes for around $55 and it makes a nice top. I figured if I tried to be too fancy, I would never get it done.

[Anna]

I picked up a solid core door are Lowes for around $55 and it makes a nice top. I figured if I tried to be too fancy, I would never get it done.

Touche.

[Black wallnut]

To directly answer your question:

tight knots may be jointed or planed but since the grain changes direction on the other side of the knot you may get some chip out. Plus the knots are considerably harder and may chatter if you try to take off too much on each pass or if you try to go at too fast of a feed rate.

[Anna]

To directly answer your question:

tight knots may be jointed or planed but since the grain changes direction on the other side of the knot you may get some chip out. Plus the knots are considerably harder and may chatter if you try to take off too much on each pass or if you try to go at too fast of a feed rate.

Thanks for giving me a direct answer. I thought that would be the case, but I wanted to hear from people who know more than I do.

Thanks again.

[JimD]

In addition to what Mark said (which I agree with), you can tell "tight" knots from loose ones very easily. Tight knots are the result of limbs that were live when the tree was cut down. They have no black around them. Loose knots are from limbs that were dead when the tree was cut down. They have black dead material around them.

If you work with material with loose knots you have to anticipate that they may come out as you make a cut. That does not have to be high drama or anything but if they get caught in the jointer or BT3100 and thrown across the room, you do not want to be in the way. Even apparently tight knots are more likely to become dislodged than is the wood.

Knots will also not absorb glue like the rest of the board. I have made lots of furniture and raised panel doors, however, using #2 softwood boards with lots of knots. I prefer other materials but the price is right for the softwood and it makes perfectly servicable things.

Jim

[Red88chevy]

Anna,

Plywood or a wood door would get you going the quickest, but I would go ahead and make the butcher block top. I wanted to make a bench like that for my first bench, but didn't have anything but a Skil saw and electric drill so I took an easier option. However I've always regretted it and am planning on replacing the top I have with a butcher top. Plus, if you are trying to learn from this project you won't learn as much from a plywood top. Yes I have put 2X4,6,10 etc through my jointer to get one good edge. JimD had a good tip about checking for tight knots that I didn't know, I usually just feel them to check if they are loose. As far as the 2X4 top workbench there is a good webpage from a man and his son that has lots of tips for making them, I can find it if you are interested. By the way, I have a daughter named Anna who sometimes helps me with my wood projects, so I'm very partial to folks with that name. If you need any help on anything please email me.

Doug

[Anna]

Thanks for all the pointers. I sort of went on a tool-buying binge and got a jointer, a planer, router, miter saw and biscuit joiner. I figured building a butcher block will let me use them all. It was after I bought the lumber that I started to worry about the knots. In other things I might be inclined to experiment, but I don't think I want to take a chance in mixing my ignorance with metal blades spinning at incredibly high speeds. I'm rather attached to my fingers, and I would like to remain that way.

My biggest hurdle right now is getting power to my shed. I can't use our garage which has a single 15-amp line. I already tripped it once when using a dremel with the space heater and a couple of shop lights. I doubt it'll be able to handle my miter saw which is 15 amps on its own.

I hope I'd be able to start my projects by the end of the month after the electrician finally hooks my shop up to the power supply. In the meantime, I'm doing a lot of researching and reading, and cogitating over the final design for the bench and the other cabinets I want to make. I am so looking forward to finally getting something done.