NB Question 2 - Tape Measure?

[IBBugsy]

Here's my second newbie question (1st was over on BT3XXX Forum):

After seeing all the posts about aligning a table saw that show people measuring in thousands of an inch (or the width of a dollar bill), is it OK to be using a tape measure to mark off your work for cutting??? What do most people use to measure work with??? If it matters, I'm just a hobbiest so I won't be making kitchen cabinets or fine furntiure, etc.

[Tom Hintz]

A tape measure is fine for layout of most project cuts. I use a centering tape (see the link below) because finding the middle of a piece is a frequent task. Otherwise, it is a simple tape measure.
One good habit is to use one tape measure for all of those tasks. If there is a small error, that same amount is added to subtracted to everything. Who will know if the bookcase is actually 1/16" shorter than you wanted?
Equally important is teaching yourself to make and use marks the same way all the time. With a standard width blade, you can be off a full 1/4" and still hit some part of a pencil line whenmaking the cut. See the second link below for a further explaination of that.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/cntrtape.html

http://www.newwoodworker.com/cutlines.html

[LarryG]

Tom has given you some good advice; and of course you've heard the one that goes, "Measure once, cut twice."

I'll add this: whenever possible, don't measure at all. Instead, use stop blocks, story sticks, direct transfer, etc. to get your pencil mark where it needs to be (if you're using a stop block, the pencil mark would be imaginary, I guess). These techniques can greatly reduce the chance of error because you no longer have to read the tape or rule, and you're combining two operations into one.

In the architectural office where I work, we sometimes jokingly say, "Never give the contractor the opportunity to do math." The same applies in a woodshop. The fewer times you have to deal with actual numbers to get your measurements, the better off you'll be.

[mater]

That is good advice Tom.

[IBBugsy]

Thanks, Tom!!

Reading the Tip article reminded me of watching my father work. Making swiggles on the work to show the waste side and using a folding wooden ruler all the time. I always wondered how he could make good cuts with that folding ruler!!

[scorrpio]

Precise alignment of the saw is important for many reasons. If fence is not dead parallel to blade, it could result in kickback. If your blade is not dead square to the table when in '0' position, your work will be also out of square or joints will not fit properly. Ditto for SMT alignment.

Far as cutting: for marking the workpiece, a quality tape measure works well, especially if you consistently use the same one throughout. Oh, and I rarely mark the actual cut line. For crosscuts, I often set my miter fence exactly 1/8" from the blade using a machinist rule. Then, I mark the pieces 1/8" short and align the mark with tip of miter fence.

P.S. and yeah, best marking is not marking at all, and just setting up the saw itself with jigs, stop blocks and such.

[IBBugsy]

Whew!!! I guess I still have a lot of reading and learning to do! My only woodworking experience has been with my dad as he framed additions to homes and built rough stuff. Never saw him use stop blocks, jigs, etc. on his table saw.

Of course, he was always in a hurry. I'm making this a hobby to get some "down time" from work and the other life stresses. Being an engineer, all this talk of jigs, alignments, etc. is intriguing and interesting.

My dad always complained that I work too slow when I help him, but that's the "curse" of an engineer. Measure twice and cut once! I know if he stops by to watch me making a cut with this new BT3100, he's gonna go nuts with impatience!

[BobSch]

quote:Originally posted by IBBugsy

Whew!!! I guess I still have a lot of reading and learning to do! My only woodworking experience has been with my dad as he framed additions to homes and built rough stuff. Never saw him use stop blocks, jigs, etc. on his table saw.

Of course, he was always in a hurry. I'm making this a hobby to get some "down time" from work and the other life stresses. Being an engineer, all this talk of jigs, alignments, etc. is intriguing and interesting.

My dad always complained that I work too slow when I help him, but that's the "curse" of an engineer. Measure twice and cut once! I know if he stops by to watch me making a cut with this new BT3100, he's gonna go nuts with impatience!

Not to take anything away from your dad, but carpentry and woodworking are two different animals. Off 1/4" on a frameup. no problem, whereas 1/32" on a piece of furnature can make a big difference. As far as jigs and stuff — look at some of Rod Kirby's stuff — works of art posing as shop tools.

[Ken Weaver]

Like most others I have measuring tapes all over the place. But I have one in the tray of my bench marked "PROJECT" in permanent marker. That's the tape I use for my WW projects to make sure I don't grab a different tape in the middle of a project. I'm really fascinated by some of the specialty tapes tho - there's a good article in this month's WoodSmith on the various types.

[Pappy]

As has ben said, if you are going to use a tape measure, use the same one on the entire project. Tapes are notoriously in accurate and no 2 will be exactly the same along the entire length. When possible, burn the first inch and add an inch to the measurement at the cut mark. The tip is designed to move to account for inside and outside measurements and they wear out and become sloppy rather quickly.

I have a 25' that is used on constructin type projects and a 12' in the shop for shop work. I also have 6", 12", and 24" steel rules in the shop that are accurate. These are what I use whenever possible. (Thinking about adding a 36" rule to the inventory)

[JimD]

I do not have a 24 inch rule (my longest is 18 inches) but I agree with Pappy. A steel rule has a least a couple of significant advantages. First, it does not easily get hung up on the grooves in the top of the BT3100 - the hook of a tape tends to. Second, a rule is wide enough that you can see whether it is perpendicular to the rip fence when measuring. If the rule is not up against the fence correctly, you see one edge touching where the other is not. This lack of perpendicularity can throw you off enough to make a difference at times.

I do not mark the wood much. The trouble with marking the wood is you have two opportunities for errors. Once when you mark and then second when you cut to the mark. Instead, I set the rip fence for rips and stop blocks on either the SMT fence or a long fence setup I have for my radial arm saw and CMS. The stops also allow easy cuts of multiple parts to the same dimension. Often it is more important that all parts be the same than it is whether they are exactly what they are supposed to be.

I also use a tape measure for long cuts but it is my last resort. I used to use it all the time but got frustrated at the errors that were occasionally created. There are better ways, most of the time.

Jim

[cwsmith]

I'll go along with the general consensus here. While I'm extremely new to the BT (still in the box), I've done a lot of work over the years with both general carpentry and some basic woodworking projects like benches, tables, book cases, etc. Always stick with the same measuring device on any particular project. I use both a measuring tape, steel rules, or even a small square, but for any particular type of measurement I stick to using the same device, so that I have duplicate values from piece to piece. Your measuring device may be off a 1/32 or even 1/16... but if you use it for everything, the parts will be consistant, and that's what's important.

CWS