CAD

[tfischer]

Hi all - I'm back from a LONG absense. Nobody probably remembers me but in any case I'm back, and looking forward to getting some woodworking done again.

Anyway, I need some recommendations on a low-cost way to draw up plans. I did some searching through the old posts, and lots of people recommended TurboCAD, which can be had for about $30 shipped on eBay if you don't mind getting a version old.

Anyway, I downloaded the demo, and I'm completely overwhelmed. I've never used CAD, I have limited drafting experience, and am in WAY over my head.

Is there a way to learn this stuff easily, or should I look elsewhere? I downloaded a 175 page tutorial which was someone doing kitchen cabinets, and my head started spinning after the 5th page -- and my screen wasn't matching what he was telling me to do, and I couldn't figure out how to proceed.

Just to qualify my experience level -- I'm a software engineer and am used to dealing with complicated software systems. I just don't have any experience with CAD, the terminology, and the like.

The projects I've done to date have been pencil and paper, and I'm thinking maybe I need to stay there if the learning curve is that high...

Thanks, and looking forward to posting here again.
-Tim

[cwsmith]

I'm a technical illustrator (retired) and personally, I've never quite gotten a "handle" on CAD software. For me, it just seems a bit unnatural. This opinion may be a little outdated, because I haven't attempted to use any of the so-called CAD programs since the mid-90's. However, I have used Corel Draw and Corel Designer (two different programs). You might want to see what kind of price you can find for the Corel Draw Graphics Suite on E-Bay. I've heard it often goes for around $100 or less.

You can also go to www.Corel.com and download a 30-day trial. For me, it performs like I would on the drawing board (I started illustratin on the board, with a straight edge in the mid 60's). The program allows you to draw basic primitives (lines, circles, rectangles, curves, etc.), set scale, color, tones, etc. It doesn't give you any fancy automatic 3-D stuff (like making a rotatable model), but it does allow you to dimension, pivot, magnify, and give you precision to .001". I use it to do everything from exploded view machine drawings, to fully color rendered cross-sections of elaborate machine mechanisms. Also floor plans, layouts, funiture, model work, and just about anything else one would want to draw.

It may not be what you want, but it does enable drawing or illustrating in a more "natural" way.... or at least that's how I see it.

I hope this helps,

CWS

[dlminehart]

Some folks use Visio on the PC for drawings. Most real CAD programs are, to my mind, far too complicated and difficult for casual use, even for those of us who spend our entire days doing many other things on computers. One exception, currently Mac only but destined for Windows, is Design Intuition. You can see it at http://www.gizmolab.com . After trying it out, you'll not want to return to the usual CAD struggles.

[leehljp]

Tim,

Welcome back. I can't help you with CAD, but I / we do remember you. You were in on the creation of "Finale", IIRC. (For others - Finale is the Photoshop of Music notation software, only better.) Was that you?

[tfischer]

quote:Originally posted by dlminehart

One exception, currently Mac only but destined for Windows, is Design Intuition. You can see it at http://www.gizmolab.com . After trying it out, you'll not want to return to the usual CAD struggles.

I looked at that website -- I was hoping to spend a lot less $$$'s than that, though. They do have a Win version available, but it's in beta.

Maybe I should download it and play with it just to see what $130 will buy you...

So for those who use TurboCAD (or another CAD program) somewhat casually -- how did you learn it? Are there books or websites to help? I don't want to make a 3D model of my car, just want to knock out some plans...

-Tim

[drumpriest]

I previsualize my projects using Caligari's trueSpace. There is a free version available online. Just google for "truespace 3.2 download" and you'll find it.

[jhart]

Hi Tim, Good to see you back on the forum. Was just wondering a week or two ago, that I hadn't seen you post for quite a while. (Actually was thinking about your Christmas light display, as my oldest son, did quite a job on his house this year.

I tried a couple of CAD type programs a few years back and decieded the learning curve was too high for what I wanted to use it for and went back to the old fashioned way (paper, ruler and pencil). Good luck on finding a program.
If you find something relatively easy to learn/use, let us know.

[tfischer]

quote:Originally posted by leehljp

Tim,

Welcome back. I can't help you with CAD, but I / we do remember you. You were in on the creation of "Finale", IIRC. (For others - Finale is the Photoshop of Music notation software, only better.) Was that you?

Yep, that's me -- thanks for remembering (also to Joe).

Funny thing is, when I was using TurboCAD for the first time, my thoughs were "Geeze and people complain that Finale is hard to learn..."

-Tim

[LarryG]

Tim,

Welcome back, and yes I do remember you. I've noticed that several familiar names have dropped off the radar around here, and it's good to get one of them back.

I'm the CAD manager (among other things) for a small architectural firm and can tell you, if it's any consolation, that your reaction is common. Every CAD program I've ever seen, including the inexpensive ones, has had a pretty steep learning curve. It's a class of software that doesn't lend itself to casual use. I say that without meaning to sound elitist: I'm not saying it takes a genius or a "special breed" to learn how to run it. But the fact remains that CAD is a very different animal from any other kind of software. Intuition will take you a long way with most kinds of software, but not CAD. It takes time to learn, and you'll find few people who are good at running it who don't do so for a living.

FWIW, even though I've been running CAD daily for the last 17+ years, I use pencil and paper for most of my woodworking projects. I'll sometimes use our CAD software to quickly rough out the overall size, layout, and principal dimensions of a project, but that's about all.

[jziegler]

TurboCAD is a pain. I use it for some drawings, but I don't particularly like it. I haven't been able to figure out any of it's 3d features at all. I do have experience with CAD (I learned Pro/Engineer in college) even doing some 3d modeling. I also am very familiar with electronics CAD.

What I really would like for the woodworking is a program that would build something much the same way you do with the actual wood. Take some boards and put them together, do some machining on them. A program like PRO/E would do this, but would be overkill, too expnsive, and not that easy to use (at least 10 years ago).

As for Finale being hard, if PrintMusic is any indication, it doesn't seem too bad to me (although my wife, the real musician in the house doesn't like a few things about it).

-Jim

[skipwill]

Tim,

Welcome back!

TurboCad IS a pain, but, it is worth it, imoho. I remember the first time I started DbaseII. All I got was a '.' prompt...and Lotus 123...all i got was a blank grid....Learning curve on these was a little high as well...but I agree, learning CAD is a bit different.

I started out with simple 2d drawings, got frustrated, put it down, and started again<g>. Its pretty pathetic, but I still sometimes carry the TurboCad ref manual around for when I am waiting in Dr's offices, etc.

I never got the hang of 3d until, while out of work for a month recovering from surgery, I downloaded a 3d turtorial (the water tower). Like you, my screen didnt match the authors either. I think i restarted about 3 times...but i finally figured out that I was doing it to learn 3d...not to duplicate the authors drawing exactly.

After a while, the 3d thingie kind of clicked in my brain, and, even though I have to still refer back to the manual/help quite a bit, I think it is worth it. I am now able 'build' a design on paper by drawing 3d boards (or whatever) and placing them in position.

Neat thing about 3d is you can rotate the drawing anywhichway and see all sides...you can actually see how joints will fit (or not) and by viewing in render mode, you can see the drawing as it might look when finished.

I encourage you to keep at it. Do it in small steps. Draw a 2d rectangle...put dimensions on it....go from there.

Skip

[skipwill]

Jim,

Using the 3d stuff in TurboCad lets you draw 'boards' in 3d and place them in position. Using some of the 3d commands (3d boolean operations) you can even 'machine' the boards just about any way you want.

My biggest problem is that there are just so many different operations and commands in TC that I just get lost trying to find which one I need<g>.

I am really suprised that someone hasent come up with 'TurboCad for Woodworking - Getting Started through 3D' tutorial.

Skip

(Note to self...Retiring this April...do TurboCad for WW tutorial...)<g>

[jziegler]

Skip,

I'd love to see a tutorial like that. Might even be enough to get me to upgrade (I currently have the basic version that comes with the kitchen designer). But I'd really like to see a program designed just for woodworkers.

-Jim

[gtokarski]

I ran across http://www.sketchup.com/ recently and it looks promising. It is NOT CAD but rather a quick sketching program to do design and layout in 3d. the site also has video tutorials. it may be a way to get into the 3d design/CAD arena without totally being overwhelmed or having to take a class.
they have a free demo version but I have not (yet) used it extensively....

[dlminehart]

Unfortunately, Sketchup is really expensive. $450, I believe.