MST and scale indicator

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  • jnesmith
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2003
    • 892
    • Tallahassee, FL, USA.

    MST and scale indicator

    As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I am about to add a set of half rails to my BT3100. Once I do, I don't plan to move the rails again. If I need more rip capacity, I'll think of another solution.

    Since my rails will be fixed, I thought it might be nice to put them in a position so the scale is lined with the blade. (I have never used the scale to this point) However, it does not appear there will be enough room on the left for the MST and the SMT. It looks like the left side of the SMT will be about 1/2" off the left end of the rails. I like having them both on the saw.

    I currently have a home made MST to the right of the blade. I like having miter slots on both the right and the left. One solution is to make a more narrow MST for the left, and mount the Ryobi MST to the right.

    Another solution is to use a portion of the other half of the rails from the wide table kit I have, to add a little to the left side of the rails. I don't really want two joints in each rail though.

    Am I correct that you can't fit the MST and SMT to the left with the fence scale zeroed?

    If so, any other solutions?

    Thanks.

    John
    John
  • pelligrini
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2007
    • 4217
    • Fort Worth, TX
    • Craftsman 21829

    #2
    Not sure about a BT3100, but I think I used to be able to put the SMT to the left with my rails set to zero. I don't think it fit with a miter table though. The 21829 rails are 6" longer than the BT rails though. I ended up setting mine at 10" to the left. It can accommodate the SMT, my shop made miter slots, and a narrow table at the far left end. I like having the support on the left side of the SMT for longer pieces. The numbers being 10" off is easy to calculate for. I added another piece of stick on tape all the way to the end of my half rails too.

    Which side of your rip fence is your indicator on? Sometime you can switch the sides and get a little more capacity.
    Erik

    Comment

    • jnesmith
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2003
      • 892
      • Tallahassee, FL, USA.

      #3
      It's on the left already.
      John

      Comment

      • LarryG
        The Full Monte
        • May 2004
        • 6693
        • Off The Back
        • Powermatic PM2000, BT3100-1

        #4
        Originally posted by jnesmith
        Am I correct that you can't fit the MST and SMT to the left with the fence scale zeroed?
        No, that's not correct; you can. As Erik says, it will depend on which side of the rip fence handle your indicator is installed on (there's a "window" for the pointer on both sides). I can't recall which side mine was on, but both a DMST and the SMT could be installed left of the main table with about 1/2" or 3/4" of rail capacity to spare.

        EDIT: Just found some pics of my saw, which BTW was also a BT3100. The scale pointer is in the left-side opening. Also, my saw's rip fence had a 1/2" Baltic birch plywood sacrificial fence T-nutted to it more or less permanently, which would have required moving the rails 1/2" to the right to compensate. So, without that, you should have about an inch or so of excess rail capacity. Note that I said "should."

        The two pictures in post #3 of this thread show my saw configured as I've described above. If you look closely for the indicator you can just make it out; and I have confirmed it is in the left-side opening in another, closer photo that I have.
        Last edited by LarryG; 02-03-2011, 03:36 PM.
        Larry

        Comment

        • jnesmith
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2003
          • 892
          • Tallahassee, FL, USA.

          #5
          Originally posted by LarryG
          No, that's not correct; you can. As Erik says, it will depend on which side of the rip fence handle your indicator is installed on (there's a "window" for the pointer on both sides). I can't recall which side mine was on, but both a DMST and the SMT could be installed left of the main table with about 1/2" or 3/4" of rail capacity to spare.

          EDIT: Just found some pics of my saw, which BTW was also a BT3100. The scale pointer is in the left-side opening. Also, my saw had a 1/2" Baltic birch plywood sacrificial fence T-nutted to it more or less permanently, which would have required moving the rails 1/2" to the right to compensate. So, without that, you should have about an inch or so of excess rail capacity. Note that I said "should."
          My indicator is already on the left. I just went out to the shop because I was so convinced that the rails were about 1/2" too short to have both tables to the left. (With the scale zeroed) I then realized why that is true for me, and not you. I have an auxiliary fence semi-permanently attached to my rip fence. It's made of 3/4 MDF and therefore reduces rip capacity by 3/4". (Or, effectively moves the rip fence 3/4" farther to the left) Without it, I would have about 1/4" of rail to spare to the left.

          It's been on there so long I just consider it part of the saw.

          OK. Assuming I keep my aux rip fence, (which I am inclined to do), any solutions other than the two I mentioned?
          John

          Comment

          • pelligrini
            Veteran Member
            • Apr 2007
            • 4217
            • Fort Worth, TX
            • Craftsman 21829

            #6
            I wouldn't want another rail joint on the left either.

            Is there enough room on the indicator to put another line over to the left, or just make a new indicator plate?

            You could put down a new stick on tape across both rails and put zero where you want it.
            Erik

            Comment

            • LarryG
              The Full Monte
              • May 2004
              • 6693
              • Off The Back
              • Powermatic PM2000, BT3100-1

              #7
              Originally posted by jnesmith
              OK. Assuming I keep my aux rip fence, (which I am inclined to do), any solutions other than the two I mentioned?
              As I said, my saw had one of those, too, although mine was only 1/2" thick. And it's possible I'm misremembering how much rail there was "left over" even with them shifted 1/2" to the right to compensate for the aux fence. I think there was at least 1/4", though, which suggest you should break even at worst. Maybe not, though.

              Three possibilities come to mind:

              1. Use an aux fence thinner than 3/4", if that will solve the problem.

              2. Use Erik's solution of applying your own scale tape. These are readily available in self-stick form, either left- or right-reading, for $10-12.

              3. Use Erik's other suggestion of modifying your scale pointer or fabricating a new one to put the red indicator line wherever you need it to be.

              If Option #1 wouldn't do it, I would probably choose Option #2. I installed a new self-adhesive scale tape on my PM2000 and there was nothing to it.
              Last edited by LarryG; 02-03-2011, 04:08 PM.
              Larry

              Comment

              • jnesmith
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2003
                • 892
                • Tallahassee, FL, USA.

                #8
                Thanks Erik and Larry.

                Larry: I somehow missed your reference to your aux fence, and didn't follow the link to your pics. Still -seems odd that you can accomplish it with a 1/2" face on your fence, and I can't with a 3/4" face. I'll double check my situation though.

                Sounds like a new tape may be the answer. That did not occur to me.
                John

                Comment

                • LarryG
                  The Full Monte
                  • May 2004
                  • 6693
                  • Off The Back
                  • Powermatic PM2000, BT3100-1

                  #9
                  AHA! Took a while, but I finally found a picture of my saw with a clear view of the left end of the front rail:

                  Click image for larger version

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                  It does look like there may be less unused capacity than I remembered. Then again, it looks like there is at least enough there to accommodate the additional 1/4" in the thickness of your 3/4" aux fence vs. the 1/2" of mine.

                  Lee Valley and Highland Hardware, and no doubt many others, have the stick-on tapes.
                  Larry

                  Comment

                  • pelligrini
                    Veteran Member
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 4217
                    • Fort Worth, TX
                    • Craftsman 21829

                    #10
                    Originally posted by jnesmith
                    Sounds like a new tape may be the answer. That did not occur to me.
                    A new tape will also allow for consistent numbers all the way across your rails. Every once in a while I'll forget that my tape extension is in real numbers from 0 and not off by 10".

                    You really might consider doing a small support table to the left of your SMT. I found that my SMT would flex a small amount if I was trying to crosscut something long and heavy. Especially when trimming the end off of a long board using the SMT. I was getting aggravated that my cuts were beveled ever so slightly. I'd check for square and it would verify, then I finally noticed what was going on; the weight of the wood was causing the SMT table to tilt. I never could get a rigid flip top aligned to the table properly for support as the ground is uneven on that end. The narrow auxiliary table solved that. It also provides good support for my crosscut sleds now. I can just take the SMT off and not have to remove the SMT fence and use the SMT table for support. You'll loose a little bit of rail capacity on the right, but who says your half rails need to be cut exactly in half?
                    Last edited by pelligrini; 02-03-2011, 05:01 PM.
                    Erik

                    Comment

                    • RodKirby
                      Veteran Member
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 3136
                      • Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
                      • Mao Shan TSC-10RAS

                      #11
                      At the risk of oversimplifying - forget the scale

                      Useful for hairline adjustments, but not for accurate measurement, IMHO.

                      Steel rule/tape measurement between fence/s and the saw blade
                      Downunder ... 1" = 25.4mm

                      Comment

                      • jnesmith
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 892
                        • Tallahassee, FL, USA.

                        #12
                        Originally posted by RodKirby
                        At the risk of oversimplifying - forget the scale

                        Useful for hairline adjustments, but not for accurate measurement, IMHO.

                        Steel rule/tape measurement between fence/s and the saw blade
                        Rod:

                        That is what I currently do, and in all likelihood, would continue to do because of long-standing practice. I thought also having the scale zeroed would come in handy for those cuts that just need to be close to a certain measurement.

                        More to come ...
                        John

                        Comment

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