so is the BT3100 officially dead?

[tkarlmann]

Rod Kirby has a better BT3100?

So if they build a better one (aka more like Rod Kirby's with a decently functioning slider), then I will be interested, as I always wondered why they didn't cast iron their design.

Boy, I have been away from this forum for a year or two -- now look at all that has happened: BT3100 is dead or dying? What's all this about? Have forum members been dropping like flies? Where did they go? What saw did they get?

Oh, yes: how is Rod Kirby's sliding table better than mine?

Help me catch up!

[tkarlmann]

BT3 NOT DEAD! Ryobi has new saw!

Here is a quote from one of those magazines:

"Also new from Ryobi—in their traditional blue and yellow—is:
• A portable 10-inch tablesaw (model BTS21) with a 30-inch rip capacity, sliding crosscut table with right and left 45° miter capacity, a folding stand, built-in wheels, and a 2 ½-inch dust collection port. This will sell for just under $250."

Sounds like Ryobi is still with us.

[LinuxRandal]

Boy, I have been away from this forum for a year or two -- now look at all that has happened: BT3100 is dead or dying? What's all this about? Have forum members been dropping like flies? Where did they go? What saw did they get?

Oh, yes: how is Rod Kirby's sliding table better than mine?

Help me catch up!

Rod replaced his saw with a cast iron saw with a sliding miter table. So he has the mass of cast iron and the capability of a sliding miter table. (though at first his didn't work as well as it should). I think he got that working although went with the typical crosscut sled. In his area (land of OZ, not Kansas) the saw was very near in price to a new BT. (his still worked, but was long in the tooth)
Home Depot (with their exclusivity on New Ryobi tools), closed out the BT3100 and decided not to carry it. Ryobi (to what I've read here) had been redesigning the saw, and released the new design as the Craftsman 21829. (longer fence, portable stand, included router table fence and slots, different top, different blade)
Cummins tools (Ryobi's refurbished dealer), dropped the BT from their website, as numbers are dwindling.

If you look at the Ridgid portable saw (model 2400LS), I think if Ryobi, cast ironed their 21829 BTClone, into this with a SMT, under a different name, reasonably priced of course, they would be major competition for the Ridgid above, the Bosch 4000 and now 4100 as well as thier own 21829.

Here is a quote from one of those magazines:

"Also new from Ryobi—in their traditional blue and yellow—is:
• A portable 10-inch tablesaw (model BTS21) with a 30-inch rip capacity, sliding crosscut table with right and left 45° miter capacity, a folding stand, built-in wheels, and a 2 ½-inch dust collection port. This will sell for just under $250."

Sounds like Ryobi is still with us.

Karlmann,
That saw is the new version of the BTS20, NOT the BT3xxx series. I am pretty sure it's also branded under the Craftsman name, 21806 if I remember correctly.

[LinuxRandal]

Boy, I have been away from this forum for a year or two -- now look at all that has happened: BT3100 is dead or dying? What's all this about? Have forum members been dropping like flies? Where did they go? What saw did they get?

Oh, yes: how is Rod Kirby's sliding table better than mine?

Help me catch up!

Rod replaced his saw with a cast iron saw with a sliding miter table. So he has the mass of cast iron and the capability of a sliding miter table. (though at first his didn't work as well as it should). I think he got that working although went with the typical crosscut sled. In his area (land of OZ, not Kansas) the saw was very near in price to a new BT. (his still worked, but was long in the tooth)
Home Depot (with their exclusivity on New Ryobi tools), closed out the BT3100 and decided not to carry it. Ryobi (to what I've read here) had been redesigning the saw, and released the new design as the Craftsman 21829. (longer fence, portable stand, included router table fence and slots, different top, different blade)
Cummins tools (Ryobi's refurbished dealer), dropped the BT from their website, as numbers are dwindling.

If you look at the Ridgid portable saw (model 2400LS), I think if Ryobi, cast ironed their 21829 BTClone, into this with a SMT, under a different name, reasonably priced of course, they would be major competition for the Ridgid above, the Bosch 4000 and now 4100 as well as thier own 21829.

Here is a quote from one of those magazines:

"Also new from Ryobi—in their traditional blue and yellow—is:
• A portable 10-inch tablesaw (model BTS21) with a 30-inch rip capacity, sliding crosscut table with right and left 45° miter capacity, a folding stand, built-in wheels, and a 2 ½-inch dust collection port. This will sell for just under $250."

Sounds like Ryobi is still with us.

Karlmann,
That saw is the new version of the BTS20, NOT the BT3xxx series. I am pretty sure it's also branded under the Craftsman name, 21806 if I remember correctly.

[vaking]

I know I will not win popularity contest with this post but I am actually surprised BT3 lived as long as it did. If I am not mistaken - Ryobi discontinued BT3000 first and introduced BT3100 significant time later. Kind of resurrected product under the heading "back by popular demand". I bought my 3100 based on some magazine article that reviewed the saw that was returning from the dead.
From the popularity and demand perspective - BT3100 is a light duty saw. That automatically makes it unfit for any woodworking professional. Contractor, cabinetmaker - all need heavier duty. Most woodworking amateurs buy table saws because they are doing some home-improvement type work. This type person will likely buy a benchtop version to save space and he does not need accuracy that BT3 can provide. In other words a buyer for BT3 must be an amateur woodworker with cabinetmaker's aspirations. Somehow I don't see this as a big market. Don't get me wrong - I love my BT but I understand that we are all here a minority. Normal people do not have such obsessive hobbies. And even among us those that go deeper into woodworking are switching to the dark side. BT3 has a small market and making it for Ryobi or stocking it for Home Depot does not pay off.

[Russianwolf]

I know I will not win popularity contest with this post but I am actually surprised BT3 lived as long as it did. If I am not mistaken - Ryobi discontinued BT3000 first and introduced BT3100 significant time later. Kind of resurrected product under the heading "back by popular demand". I bought my 3100 based on some magazine article that reviewed the saw that was returning from the dead.
From the popularity and demand perspective - BT3100 is a light duty saw. That automatically makes it unfit for any woodworking professional. Contractor, cabinetmaker - all need heavier duty. Most woodworking amateurs buy table saws because they are doing some home-improvement type work. This type person will likely buy a benchtop version to save space and he does not need accuracy that BT3 can provide. In other words a buyer for BT3 must be an amateur woodworker with cabinetmaker's aspirations. Somehow I don't see this as a big market. Don't get me wrong - I love my BT but I understand that we are all here a minority. Normal people do not have such obsessive hobbies. And even among us those that go deeper into woodworking are switching to the dark side. BT3 has a small market and making it for Ryobi or stocking it for Home Depot does not pay off.

yet it's still available as a Craftsman and as noted it's still available overseas. I don't think it's a small market saw, but more of an misunderstood saw. Alot of hobbyist woodworkers out there try to get by with the benchtop saws you mentioned and get discouraged enough from them to drop the hobby. Others in the hobby are lead to believe that they need a $1000 saw to make a decent piece of furniture. I think a fair share of both these groups would be surprised what they could do with the BT3. Unfortunately the marketing that has been done for this saw is atrocious. How many on this site have said "I was looking for a saw, found this site, and that's why I bought a BT3". I think Ryobi's biggest Mistake with the BT3 is their exclusivity agreement. Their 18v tools will do well in that environment, but a specialty woodworking saw should be able to be marketed to specialty woodworking shops also.

How many more BT3's would be sold if they were sitting in the Woodcraft stores (properly assembled and with a guy who can demostrate it's abilities standing nearby)?

[dkerfoot]

"group owner", would that be TTI?

Last month, I saw my my "ex" brother-in-law for the first time in about 10 years at a family wedding. He was a major player in TTI. He had been Director of Power Tools for Ryobi. If I remember right, he actually joined TTI before the buyout.

Sadly, he tired of constant travel to Hong Kong and retired 5 or so years ago, so I don't have a source for insider information, nor free tools.

He is a great guy though - I forgot how much I liked him.

[LinuxRandal]

My neighbor, was a woodworkers apprentice for a year, before moving to this country, years ago. He got po'd after trying to find a blade for his 40 year old saw (3/4" arbor 10" blade). Since he couldn't find any "reasonable" blades, he said he was going to get a new saw. I told him about the BT, since he mentioned looking at Cummins, and that is what he ended up with.

He's impressed with it, and it's accuracy. He considers it an upgrade from his old cast iron.
I did tell him I was interested in his old saw (he doesn't want to get rid of it yet). I figure have a machinist friend of ours turn down the arbor, add the bies fence and a Forrest blade, and it should be mostly good (gonna have to get a shark splitter). I have been using my gcss more, but figure that older iron, would handle the abuse it would get at my brothers farm.

[dkerfoot]

I think the reason the BT3100 was dropped is because it doesn't fit well with the rest of the Ryobi lineup. In fact, the problem is that it doesn't fit very well with any of the TTI lines of products.

Very few companies can afford to market individual products. Even if they highlight a single product, it is usually intended to attract buyers to their entire line.

How would you describe the BT3100? It may be a good value, but it isn't in the "cheap" range (except when on closeout). When you think about Ryobi's other lines, precise and flexible exactly don't come to mind.

The BT3100 just doesn't line up with other Ryobi products or their intended audience. It certainly doesn't match the Milwaukee line.

Sears is a fairly decent home for it because their is a broader lineup under the Craftsman umbrella.

Who else? Is there a company where the BT3100 would fit better than Ryobi?