20% Off One Item - Rockler - Cyber No Stores

[Jeffrey Schronce]

http://www.rockler.com/logon/V8712la...ginid=68493487

Code is V8712.

No free shipping right now.

[gwyneth]

http://www.rockler.com/logon/V8712la...ginid=68493487

Code is V8712.

No free shipping right now.

Do you mean with that offer or in general? I got the Rockler Rewards letter from them last week with free shipping on anything until the rest of the year (though with some fine print, excluding 'other promotions', which this would be?)

[Jeffrey Schronce]

BTW, contrary to information on coupon 20% off is applying to a limited number of Festool products, particularly the dust extraction vacs. Nothing like reducing the price of a vac from $500 to $400 !

It is applying to some accessories and the rotary sander (NOT Rotex).

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Do you mean with that offer or in general? I got the Rockler Rewards letter from them last week with free shipping on anything until the rest of the year (though with some fine print, excluding 'other promotions', which this would be?)

Ya, I don't think they will stack. I have the same Rockler Rewards letter but have not tried it yet.

[gwyneth]

BTW, contrary to information on coupon 20% off is applying to a limited number of Festool products, particularly the dust extraction vacs. Nothing like reducing the price of a vac from $500 to $400.

And the rich get richer...

[Jeffrey Schronce]

And the rich get richer...

Pretty sad when 20% off still makes you go "Whoa! A $400 vac?!??!"

Now the Midi . .. that’s much more reasonable!

Jeff (who got a great deal on his Festool vac!)

[gwyneth]

Pretty sad when 20% off still makes you go "Whoa! A $400 vac?!??!"

Now the Midi . .. that’s much more reasonable!

Jeff (who got a great deal on his Festool vac!)

Didn't mean to break the forum rule about invoking class warfare...maybe a better way to look at it is: the Rocklers get a little less rich.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Didn't mean to break the forum rule about invoking class warfare...maybe a better way to look at it is: the Rocklers get a little less rich.

I am not sure they are getting so rich! Heck they have stores going out of business. I mean heck there is a lot in inventory overhead but can you imagine the margin on some of that stuff??!?!

I quite frankly have always disliked Festool due to price fixing. However, the Domino sucked me in and I ran across a deal on the Domino matched with Midi Vac. The package deal was good but I ran across a pretty deep discount on the whole package or I could not have split with the $ out of principle!

[gwyneth]

Actually, I'd expect that careful shopping and planning would reduce the price enough so that "overpricing" is less of an issue.

Viewed the right way, and with the right math, they could be very cost-effective (provided they last five years or more). And that's without even working in calculations for time and material savings (for some people, eliminating errors and redos would automatically mean spending enough less to make a big difference).

Just one half-baked example would be how much I spent on circular saws and assorted methods to achieve straight cuts in the five years before discovering the All-One-Clamp and saw plate (a down market version of the Festool saw and guides), which plus the dumb cheapo Craftsman table saw that was part of this effort (before getting my first BT) and the Festool saw would be the clear winner. Without even adding in cost of errors and frustration, or its continued deployment.

Same with the theoretical Festool router and its not-theoretical predecessors.

Ironically, and completely counter-intuitively, I think this math would favor newbies and the less skilled more than the advanced or professional woodworker, because the latter two have a much easier time achieving precision. The newbie/unskilled are the people who screw around with cheap (in the bad sense) tools and either stop trying (in which case the tool expense is a complete loss) or upgrade eventually anyway (in which case the initial tool expense is still a loss, though perhaps less of a hit).

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Actually, I'd expect that careful shopping and planning would reduce the price enough so that "overpricing" is less of an issue.

UNFORTUNATELY, FESTOOL PRICING IS FIXED. ALL ISA (INDEPENDENT SALES AGENTS OR WHATEVER) MUST SELL AT THE SAME PRICE. FAILING TO DO SO WILL RESULT IN IMMEDIATE TERMINATION OF THE SALES AGREEMENT. THAT IS WHY THIS ROCKLER EVENT IS SO RARE AND I CAN ASSURE YOU IT WILL BE FIXED SHORTLY AFTER THE SMALLER ISA START TELLING ON THEM.

Viewed the right way, and with the right math, they could be very cost-effective (provided they last five years or more). And that's without even working in calculations for time and material savings (for some people, eliminating errors and redos would automatically mean spending enough less to make a big difference).

ABSOLUTELY. I KNOW A HIGH END CUSTOM REMODEL GROUP IN VA THAT USES A LOT OF FESTOOL PRODUCTS. THEIR PRICES REFLECT THAT. THE DUST REDUCTION GREATLY REDUCES POST CONSTRUCTION CLEAN UP AS WELL AS ALLOWING CUSTOMERS TO STAY IN THEIR HOMES DURING RECONSTRUCTION IN SOME CASES. THE PLUNGE CIRCULAR SAW HAS REALLY COME IN HANDY FOR THOSE FOLKS DOING HARDWOOD FLOORING REPAIRS.

Just one half-baked example would be how much I spent on circular saws and assorted methods to achieve straight cuts in the five years before discovering the All-One-Clamp and saw plate (a down market version of the Festool saw and guides), which plus the dumb cheapo Craftsman table saw that was part of this effort (before getting my first BT) and the Festool saw would be the clear winner. Without even adding in cost of errors and frustration, or its continued deployment.

I WILL AGREE WITH THIS EXAMPLE. QUITE OFTEN FOLKS (INCLUDING MYSELF) TRY TO "CHEAP OUT" AND END UP REDOING, REWORKING, AND SPENDING A TON OF TIME, MONEY AND EFFORT ON THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY ON THE MARKET AND COULD EASILY TAKE CARE OF THE NEEDS. THIS OF COURSE DOES NOT IMPACT THOSE WHO ENJOY PUTZING AROUND WITH TOOLS, JIGS, ETC.

Same with the theoretical Festool router and its not-theoretical predecessors.

BLAHHH. I DON'T HAVE MUCH USE FOR THE FESTOOL LINE OF ROUTERS. I THINK THERE ARE SUPERIOR ROUTERS ON THE MARKET THAT ARE MUCH CHEAPER. TRITON HAS SUPERIOR DUST COLLECTION. BOSCH HAS BETTER PLUNGE UNITS. AND NONE OF THE FESTOOLS ROUTERS ARE WORTH MOUNTING IN A ROUTER TABLE.

Ironically, and completely counter-intuitively, I think this math would favor newbies and the less skilled more than the advanced or professional woodworker, because the latter two have a much easier time achieving precision. The newbie/unskilled are the people who screw around with cheap (in the bad sense) tools and either stop trying (in which case the tool expense is a complete loss) or upgrade eventually anyway (in which case the initial tool expense is still a loss, though perhaps less of a hit).

I BELIEVE YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT IN THIS THEORY. HOW MANY OF US "DID IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME" WHEN WE WERE STARTING OUT. THIS CONCEPT IS REALLY OUTSIDE THE REALM OF THE FESTOOL DISCUSSION AND PROBABLY WORTHY OF ITS OWN THREAD!

Replies posted in quote above in nasty bold caps!

[jussi]

Ok, this is one thing I'm confused about Festool. I'm pretty new to woodworking so if there's something I'm missing please clue me in. Wouldn't Festool be better served to lower their prices closer to their competitors. Although the price per tool would be less but the volume (I would think) would more than make up for it. Or do you think they have already done the market research on this and found it not to be the case.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Ok, this is one thing I'm confused about Festool. I'm pretty new to woodworking so if there's something I'm missing please clue me in. Wouldn't Festool be better served to lower their prices closer to their competitors. Although the price per tool would be less but the volume (I would think) would more than make up for it. Or do you think they have already done the market research on this and found it not to be the case.

The same arguement can be used for anything coming out of Germany . . . Festool, Mercedes, BMW, Becks, etc.

Their "theory" is that they have innovative tools sold by a specialized network of sales reps that add value to the product. They come in cute little cases called Systainers, they have interchanging plugs and are all part of a "system".

There is no doubt that if Porter Cable came out with a Domino rip off and sold it for $400 they would make an incredible profit and each Festools lunch in that market. This is identical to what they did with Lamello and the biscuit joiner, however their are folks out there still buying $600 Lamello biscuit joiners.

[gwyneth]

This is identical to what they did with Lamello and the biscuit joiner, however their are folks out there still buying $600 Lamello biscuit joiners.

There is also a certain percentage of customers--call them the hobbyists who buy the $800 folding workbench at Garrett Wade--who need to pay more or they don't think whatever it is works as well.

[herb fellows]

From a newbie, well put Gwyneth. There is sort of a catch 22 when you're a newbie. You don't want to spend for the top of the line tool before you really have a chance to use one and see if it will pay its way, but if you go too cheap you just get frustrated using it and give up, never knowing that if you had the better tool you would be happy with it. Whhat's a newbie to do?! :-(

[Andrew Benedetto]

"There is no doubt that if Porter Cable came out with a Domino rip off... "

Well the rip off is the Domino itself at that price. The festool cult, I am not a member. I think b/c tools are so expensive in the EU they price based on that system. I love German quality tools but Festool and Fein's pricing is just to rich for me. I looked at a Multimaster , 3 small steel replacement blades are $90!