JET JTAS-10SXL50 3 HP Cabinet Saw 50" Fence, Left Tilt, Mobile Base - $854.23

[JBD]

I think thats the same one Jeffrey bought.

Im talking about the one at the top of this thread.

PS.
Also, dont you have a seperate order # just for the saw?
If you used that for correspondence with Amazon then thats what the refund will be on.

[JBD]

I got the same response, but the only item that qualified was the blade, so they refunded me $12.00. Is that what you guys were refunded?

Another thing; how can they give you a refund on a free blade???

[Woodwerker]

Another thing; how can they give you a refund on a free blade???

I called once and spoke to a rep that told me that the 20offmay was ONLY for accessories not the saw. They I emailed and was refunded $12 off the total order and told again that the offer was only for accessories...

[Woodwerker]

Thank you for writing to us at Amazon.com.

I've investigated your order and found that it qualified for our
promotional offer.

To correct this error, I have requested a refund of $12.00 to
reimburse you for the amount you were charged.

Please note that the 20OFFMAY promotion were for tool accessories, the
item in this order that qualified for the promotion was the "Freud
LU84R011 10-Inch 50-Tooth Combination Blade."

This refund should be issued to your credit card within the next
2 to 3 business days. We will send you another e-mail to let you know
when it has been completed. You may also view refunds by clicking the
"Your Account" link at the top of our web site, then clicking "Go!"
next to "open and recently shipped orders."
Completed refunds appear at the bottom of an individual order's
summary page.

I hope this solution is satisfactory. Thank you for shopping at
Amazon.com.

[davidtu]

Woodwerker try again. Worked for me.
Good luck.

[LarryG]

You guys are unbelievable.

You know d@mn well this discount isn't supposed to apply to these saws, but you're resorting to deception to hoodwink some clueless CS agent into giving it to you anyway.

What's the price of personal integrity? Apparently, it's only 20%.

You should all be ashamed.

[LarryG]

Oh, one other thing ... if you must engage in this sort of behavior, at least have the common courtesy to do it privately, in email. You may not care about BT3Central's reputation, but there are those of us who do.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

You guys are unbelievable.

You know d@mn well this discount isn't supposed to apply to these saws, but you're resorting to deception to hoodwink some clueless CS agent into giving it to you anyway.

What's the price of personal integrity? Apparently, it's only 20%.

You should all be ashamed.

Larry,

I am sorry if parts of this thread offended you. Sometimes in the quest for a goal, in this case lower prices, one can often loose focus of what is important to them. However, we must understand that some folks may not have a moral or ethical issue with these actions. As such, each person has the right to do as they see fit. Additionally, I don't feel that it is appropriate to attack someones character based upon your own personal beliefs.

As far as the community of BT3central, I am as proud of a member as anyone else. I don't feel that the actions of a few reflect on the entire entity. Anyone who reviews a post that they consider to be negative and forms an opinion of the entire site is being very shallow minded.

Having said those things, I am sorry that the posts have offended you. I don't like the idea of anyone getting a bad taste from BT3. Those involved in the discussion may wish to utilize PM or email to avoid further offending parties. Likewise, offended parties may want to unsubscribe to offending threads and/or block posts by offending parties.

[Woodwerker]

Oh, one other thing ... if you must engage in this sort of behavior, at least have the common courtesy to do it privately, in email. You may not care about BT3Central's reputation, but there are those of us who do.

I was not intending to hookwink anyone.
Just letting the guys know that the discount applies to accessories only

[LarryG]

Woodwerker: No, not you. My apologies for not being more specific, and for my careless use of the word "all."

Jeff: My comments stand, with these additions:

I'm not offended. I'm saddened. The $854 price of this saw was roughly half the normal street price. A full 50% discount, and it's still not enough. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that there's an element on this web site that doesn't really care about tools, doesn't really care about woodworking ... all that matters is paying the least possible amount, for every single purchase. Hence the shady maneuvers to get the price even lower, no matter what it takes. Very, very sad.

Lastly, since your own reply indicates an admission that these tactics are, in fact, morally or ethically questionable ... how dare you suggest that I stop reading certain threads, or block certain parties. This is not about me, or about how I as one member respond to this or that post. This is not the wide-open, wild-and-wooly Internet. This is a privately-owned web site, the property of one individual. We are all guests here. If there is any question about propriety, we must all, always, take the high road. To do any less is to be disrespectful of our host.

This is Sam Conder's electronic house. Don't crap on his living room floor and tell me to hold my nose if I don't like the smell.

[ryan.s]

If a $3000 shaper goes on sale for $500 and deep down inside you think it's a pricing mistake by amazon, is it immoral to purchase the shaper? Would you call amazon and tell them the item is priced too low and you think it's a mistake? I didn't purchase a table saw nor did I try to apply the code on an item that did not display the promo nor do I plan to but what "saddens" me is people that pass moral judgement on others. I have my beliefs and I'm not saying that trying to get a discount when it shouldn't apply is right or wrong. All I'm saying is in my 36 years of life I wasn't always perfect and know I'm in no position to judge others.

How about a "come on guys" or "please take it to PM's" instead of "you guys are bringing down the bt3 community and should be ****ed to he**".

[davidtu]

Larry, for me point taken. Sometimes we may get carried away trying to help each other out. Let me say also, Larry, that I have a great deal of respect for you and am disturbed to see I may have been party to offending you. You have certainly made me think twice. I still come out thinking its ok to request the promo be applied, but I did have to challenge myself to see if that was a valid position or not. Like many issues within the bounds of ethical consideration there is no clearcut right/wrong here in my opinion.

I disagree that I know the code doesn't apply; Amazon's display pages often do not have complete coverage of what applies to a given promotion. They never give an exhaustive list of to what items a given promotion applies. Also, they do not automatically give you the code when you put something in your cart--you have to know about it and remember to enter the code. Isn't Amazon playing games then? If they want to give a discount they could just give it. Instead they want to discriminate between customers who are informed and those who are not. If you don't know you are leaving money on the table by not entering a code, they are not going to point it out to you, they are going to sweep it up; but if you ask they will tell you. Most people in the buying world don't know they offer price protection for 30 days after purchase. Again, those who know get more than those who don't.

I don't view this promo code to be too different. I cannot believe based on the wide range of items that have been convered by the discount, and the wide range of customer service reps that have granted it that it is a fluke. I don't feel that I've hoodwinked anyone--I've merely asked and thev're merely granted. No deception. Its not at all unlike asking for the new lower price on something I bought two weeks ago. If I don't ask they don't give it. If I do ask, they do give it. I've never seen the 30 day pricing guarantee in print, but I know it is there.

As for the specific case here (20OFFMAY), if they don't give the same discount to everyone then perhaps its up to their discretion and it may matter how you ask or who the individual rep is, thus my advice to Woodwerker to try again. Why should I get it, Jeffrey, JBD, and who knows who else get it but not Woodwerker? I've gotten too many good bargains from the members here to not share what I know when I know something.

I was wrong to make certain generalizations in my initial comments and have deleted them.

I certainly hope the community has not been harmed by this discussion.

Regards,
David

UPDATE: it seems as if Amazon is making my argument for me. This is an email I just received (happens to be in regards to an purchase unrelated to the saw)...

Thank you for writing to us at Amazon.com.
I'm sorry, but it appears that your order did not meet all of the qualifications specified for this promotional offer.
Specifically, please note that this promotion applies only to qualifying items displaying the offer message on their product information pages. Items that do not display the offer message do not qualify, regardless of the nature of the item.
I see that in the product information page for the item did not display the offer message.
Hence it is not qualified for this promotional offer.

However, due to the circumstances surrounding your order, I have made a one-time exception to our standard policy and have decided to waive the restriction and apply the promotion to your order.
I have redeuced the cost of the item to $56.44.

[JBD]

PS.

I should add that when this promo was released, it was displayed on many different item pages, several days later the promo started disappearing from those pages...

From Terms and Conditions:

Promotional offer valid April 24, 2007 - May 28, 2007.
Items placed in Shopping Cart overnight may not be eligible for promotion at time of checkout.
Promotion applies only to qualifying items displaying the offer message on their product information pages.
Items that do not display the offer message do not qualify, regardless of the nature of the item

To clarify, or actually to restate...

I have been following the prices on the Left Tilt saws for quite awhile.
When this promo was released, as I stated above, it was displayed on many different item pages. Including the saw that I bought. It was also displayed on the PC router combo, some Bosch items, several others. Sometime after that ( no more than a couple of days ) it was gone from those item pages but the promo was still in effect.

This is exactly what I stated in my email to Amazon CS.
I posted this info in the thread of the saw that I bought!
I asked to buy a 2nd saw asking if they would match the discount that I got on the 1st one. They did.
How is this unethical.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

The $854 price of this saw was roughly half the normal street price. A full 50% discount, and it's still not enough. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that there's an element on this web site that doesn't really care about tools, doesn't really care about woodworking ...

Larry,

I tried to respond in a civil manner and not attack anyones character. I really do appreciate your position on the matter. Additionally, like David, I very much respect your tenure and wisdom shared on this site. I do not want any hard feelings.

While this discussion of the discount is held in this thread, no one purchased the $854 saw, rather they purchased the $1000+ saw with 50" fence. Last year a non-Amazon retailer sold the exact same set up, except it included a full Bosch 1617 router kit, for $1200 shipped. We are paying $1000 + $150 for shipping, without the Bosch router kit. The saw is half off Amazon retail, which we all laugh at daily. So, while I think it is a good deal, it is not a margin buster for Amazon.

I really don't like the statement indicating that David and I don't care about tools or woodworking. I personally spend hours in my shop every single day. This week I have built and finished 3 decent projects. 2 are gifts and 1 is a shop jig (I know don't pass out folks . . . I made a shop jig! LOL!). The two hall mirror units were made from English Brown Oak that I resawed on my BS. While it is not ultra fine woodworking it certainly took a little skill and working with the English Brown Oak was awesome (once I figured out what it was!). Anyway, my point is that the judgment that all I care about is cheap tools is quite inaccurate. Woodworking is something my father instilled in me as a young man and something I have rediscovered as an adult. I love wood. I love working with wood, even those I am allergic to.

Having said that I hope that we can all get along amicably. We all love wood, BT3 saw, friendships or even some folks may just like collecting nice tools at great prices to sit in their shop. To each his own. However, I really hope that there are no future problems like this. I understand on the net that it is quite common to run across offensive material. The lack of that material and conflict I why I really like BT3central. Again, I hope there is no hard feelings and we can all move on.

[JR]

Careening slightly off topic...

This kind of thread is exactly what made the BT3Central reputation. Not the Bargain Alert (well, ok, Bargain Alerts are a big piece of it), but the questions about who you are, who we are as a community.

Larry's challenge makes us introspective. Are we working the system to our best advantage, or are we taking advantage of inadvertent mistakes?

If the clerk makes a mistake in making change, do we point it out or walk away? Most of us point out the mistake - once. Some try harder. Very few of us walk away with the sly grin.

At one time these challenges were a mainstay of the BT3Central dialogue. And they have frequently appeared on the context of a Bargain Alert. This is the first time I ever remember it happening in relation to an $800 "bargain alert", but life marches on.

I, for one, have benefitted from these discussions. In scanning this thread, I'm not sure I agree with Larry's POV, a rare circumtance. I am happy to have read it, though, because it gives food for thought.

JR,
going back to the hunydoo list now...