How the BORG cost themselves $6k for 2 minutes and $4 (a rant)

[jussi]

I applaud the op for standing behind his principles. And I totally agree the advice you get at the big box stores is laughable. I actually had one guy answer by question by telling me to look the info on my phone because he had no idea. But like wood turner I'm skeptical it will make a big difference. People will overlook just about anything if it's cheap and convenient for them. Businesses like Walmart and Mernards seem to exemplify it. Maybe I'm wrong and just too pessimistic but it certainly doesn't seem that way.

[Hellrazor]

I don't know what is better/worse. "CS" who chase you around to help you or the ones that ignore you. Normally I know what I want, don't need help or want to do the research myself. Other people are the exact opposite.

As far as people caring. $$ does make a difference in a lot of cases. I didn't have issues hiring people and retaining them when the starting wage was higher.

I had a guy ignore me the other day at a box store. I have the feeling he didn't approve of my NRA shirt. I was ignored while he went to people on either side of me and stuck his nose in the air when he was where I was at. Now if that only work everyplace...

[woodturner]

You are equating CS to price and salary. I equate CS to training, expectation and individual ethic.

Sadly, that seems to be the case anymore, particularly with younger people. We had that issue with student volunteers for a professional organization - the "looks good on your resume and is good experience" isn't enough anymore, they want course credit or some other "payback" for everything they do.

It is a little insulting to insinuate that personal ethic is dependent on salary across the board. I work with generational poverty everyday. Even among generational poverty, there are many of those that have good work ethic and work for minimum wage when they can; very polite and helpful.

Some people will "do the right thing" because it is the right thing to do. Sadly, few employees seem to take that view anymore - I think you and I are among the few exceptions.

I applaud his "reaction". If we only had enough people to do this. - enough to not only stand up for what is right, but willing to walk if service is not what it should be, particularly at management level.

I don't think it would make any difference. They might go out of business if everyone boycotted them, but are unlikely to make or admit the connection to the customers.

Once we give UP the expectation of customer service, we degrade ourselves to becoming like store.

That's the core issue, I think - expectations. Going to HD and expecting good service and rock bottom prices is unrealistic I think. Most of us shop there because the prices are low, and honestly I don't think we want or expect much in the way of service. Not sure when I last interacted with an HD employee - I go to the store, select my items, and use the self checkout.

[woodturner]

There is only one cashier in that store now, all the rest are auto-checkouts. I refuse to use such robots, anywhere. Those machines cost more than what an employee would cost them in a year or more and I simply don't think that's right.

Personally, I think the auto-checkouts are great - they cost less than the cost of a single employee for one month, and they are quick, accurate, don't give you an attitude or a hard time, and are so much faster.

While I think HD has significantly gone "down hill" ...(no stationary tools anymore),

They have stopped selling stationary tools at your HD? Interesting. I do think it varies a lot by location, not just store.

just plane poor quality product offerings (especially lumber)

The box stores have the same lumber as the builders' supply, the problem is that customers pick out the better pieces and leave the culls behind. The "trick" is to ask them to bring down a new bunker so you can pick the best stuff :-)

My local Lowes seems to be doing spectacularly well and their parking lot is always full. They also have a heckuva lot more employees and most all of them pretty well trained and knowledgeable. There are also no robot cashiers there!

Curious - the Lowes here has mostly robot cashiers, which is a good thing since their customer service is so terribly bad and their prices are higher. Again, it probably varies by location, but there is likely good reason HD is growing and Lowes is not.

[cwsmith]

Perhaps it's only me, but I don't feel that "good" customer service has anything to do with whether you are "followed around" or the sales associate just let's you off on your own. It does have everything to do with a sales associate being approachable, and once approached, willing to help to the best of their ability. A salesman doesn't really have to be experienced in the applicable vocation, but they should well know about the products that they are responsible to selling.

Finding an associate that is too busy to answer your question or too arrogant to explain is every bit as bad, if not worse, than being ignorant of the product. I don't know what it is about Home Depot, but it's almost like the store policy is to 'tell the customer any kind of story"... give them an answer, any answer, even if you have to dream one up! In my years of experience, I have very rarely ever encountered that kind of thing anywhere else; but, at Home Depot it seems to be a very prevalent policy.

I went to Home Depot this afternoon to buy a flip-lock. I looked in the hardware isle, but couldn't find anything like that. I asked an orange apron and they told me to check in another isle for their "door hardware". Took me awhile, to find that isle, but then couldn't find the product. I then asked another orange apron and he said he never heard of anything like that and that I must be mistaken. Another associate came along and he told me that nobody makes them anymore. They had something similar, but significantly larger... it cost about $20. I left for Lowes, and upon entering the store, I encounter a young lady just leaving the service desk (right at the entrance). She says they're in isle seventeen, and she walks down there with me, goes down the isle and picks it off the rack..."Do you want silver or brass?". That was priced at $2, and I checked out at a real live cashier a moment later.

Now that's the difference in customer service... one store has it, performed with a smile, and the other store doesn't have a clue.

When a big-box store starts that kind of poor service, we all should address the issues. Surely the first few years will show an increase in their bottom line, but eventually what will happen if customers start to leave. Problem, IMO, is that newer generations just don't think about it... don't know what real service is, or simply don't care. It's like eating too many meals out or thinking that the off-the-shelf cherry pie is the best you ever tasted. Too many people today just don't know the difference I think.

At 71, I guess I'm just too old fashioned. Too bad really, but I sort of miss grandma's fresh picked cherries in a pie that was to die for. Or fresh bread that was only good for one day, or those movie theaters that made fresh popcorn made right in the theater, or when you pulled up to the pump and some guy came out and pumped your gas, checked your oil, cleaned the windshield... all the while asking how you were, where ya been, and did I tell you I'm getting married next week!

More and more we seem to settle for less service, less quality, and for it all, I think we have all sort of become less for it.

CWS

[woodturner]

At 71, I guess I'm just too old fashioned. Too bad really, but I sort of miss grandma's fresh picked cherries in a pie that was to die for. Or fresh bread that was only good for one day, or those movie theaters that made fresh popcorn made right in the theater, or when you pulled up to the pump and some guy came out and pumped your gas, checked your oil, cleaned the windshield... all the while asking how you were, where ya been, and did I tell you I'm getting married next week!

More and more we seem to settle for less service, less quality, and for it all, I think we have all sort of become less for it.

I think it's more that society grew, and the "customer service" of 70 years ago is no longer possible, nor would anyone be willing to pay for it. For example, around here, you can still go to stations that will pump your gas - for a $1.00 or so premium. Some people do go to those stations, but most of us prefer to pump ourselves to save the money. As a practical matter, those stations could not accommodate everyone, even if we were willing to pay for it.

The world and society change with time. Back in the day of "customer service", it took days to communicate with anyone and a trip to the library and weeks to receive ordered books for any kind of information. Today we have computers with more processing capability than existed in the world back then, can communicate instantly with anyone, and have more information instantly available than existed back then. There will always be tradeoffs and "growing pains", and stores will adapt to provide the level of customer service customers desire and will pay for. That may be the bigger issue - most people don't want that level of cs and are not willing to pay for it, and a store can't survive catering to the 0.1%. Simple economics, really.

[leehljp]

I think it's more that society grew, and the "customer service" of 70 years ago is no longer possible, nor would anyone be willing to pay for it. For example, around here, you can still go to stations that will pump your gas - for a $1.00 or so premium. Some people do go to those stations, but most of us prefer to pump ourselves to save the money. As a practical matter, those stations could not accommodate everyone, even if we were willing to pay for it.

The world and society change with time. Back in the day of "customer service", it took days to communicate with anyone and a trip to the library and weeks to receive ordered books for any kind of information. Today we have computers with more processing capability than existed in the world back then, can communicate instantly with anyone, and have more information instantly available than existed back then. There will always be tradeoffs and "growing pains", and stores will adapt to provide the level of customer service customers desire and will pay for. That may be the bigger issue - most people don't want that level of cs and are not willing to pay for it, and a store can't survive catering to the 0.1%. Simple economics, really.

Well, while that is correct in part, it does not cover all. So what is the purpose of customer service counter at the Big Box stores. What is the purpose of workers who are not "stocking" - there, or at Walmart, or the local hardware store? They exist to assist the customer; if not, then they are a part of the price of the item to be purchased with no benefit to the customer or store bottom line. Granted, flooring, custom order of many items, paint mixing, etc - need a person if that store wants to compete with other stores. So, their existence is for Assisting Customers.

By the way, I still see this assistance in local independent hardware stores and in mom and pop stores. I can often find a better tool at a local independent store than at a chain or big box store, and at a comparable price as well as the great customer service.

STILL the big box stores hire workers for assistance to customers, not to reduce the unemployment rate.

[woodturner]

STILL the big box stores hire workers for assistance to customers, not to reduce the unemployment rate.

I'm not convinced that is the case, given that they don't seem to discipline or terminate employees that stand around chatting with each other instead of helping customers, etc. Honestly, I'm not sure why they hire workers, other than to handle larger items. With self checkouts, most of the employees are not really needed.

Found this article that talks about the marketplace changes and how we, the consumers, are driving companies to lower costs at the expense of customer service
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gregor...usaolp00000592

I have come to realize people fall into a couple of groups. One example is meetings - stereotypically the engineers want to answer the question by email because it is more efficient, but the business types want to meet face to face and chat about it for an hour to reach a decision. Some of that is evidenced in this thread - some people talk about not wanting to be bothered by employees, others complain the workers don't ask them about their kids. I think in time companies will figure out ways to meet the wants of both groups, but it's going to have to cost more to meet the wants of the "social" group.