All George Zimmerman Threads

[durango dude]

I'm an avid shooter, and even carry openly on occasion (back country exploring, or hunting). I don't conceal-carry - simply because I don't like what it does to my mind.

I think this guy was over-confident . I think his mindset allowed him to get into a physical confrontation (he chased Martin) - and ultimately led to death. I don't think he's a murderer - but I would have easily considered man slaughter were I on the jury. (Seems fair to say the incident was a two-way street).

One of the things they teach a real cop is how to avoid conflict (and how to handle it if it comes). Vigalantes don't really do that.

I don't claim to be perfect - but I think prudence is better than paranoia. Temprence is usually more effective than testosterone.

In any event - the jury decided what they decided. I wish they hadn't decided what they did.

Now - getting back to woodworking ----

[JimD]

I saw an editorial this morning arguing that Zimmerman's life wasn't in danger because "who ever heard of a person dying from his head banging concrete?". How silly can you get. I suspect the judges decision to exclude the character information on TM would have been a reason for an appeal if GZ had been convicted. Maybe this is just a young man who made a bad decision and a trigger happy guy with a gun but the available data says TM forced a confrontation he was winning but he didn't count on GZ being armed. The only scenario where I would think GZ "got off" is if he was the one that confronted TM to hold him for the cops or something. I'm not sure that would create a crime, however. But if it was really TM confronting GZ and injuring him before the gun came out, GZ shouldn't have been tried.

[cabinetman]

I've been watching the reactions to the verdict. Zimmerman wasn't charged initially. Then the protests started and then the State decided...OK, we'll charge the guy and let a jury decide. So, then, the protestors got their wish.

The case goes to trial, and Zimmerman is found not guilty. Well, the same protestors aren't happy with that verdict. The justice system didn't give them what they wanted. They are now trying to figure out how to get justice so that Zimmerman comes out guilty. Hey, maybe make a federal case out of it. Yeah, we'll pressure the federal court system to charge him...maybe we'll get a guilty verdict that way.

I'm just wondering if that happens, and it comes out as not guilty again...what's left for the protestors...is there an interplanetary justice system? Maybe just set aside the verdict and say he's guilty. Now that's the kind of justice the protestors really want. Anything other than that won't be acceptable.

They could say it's the will of the masses, and with mob rule kidnap Zimmerman, and hang him from a tree. Now...that sounds very familiar.

.

[Slik Geek]

I couldn't disagree more! And the reasons are many.
CWS

Sadly, in so many instances for this case, many have stated reasons to criticize and condemn Zimmerman, but as others have shown, these reasons are often based on misinformation and rhetoric, instead of the verifiable facts. Emotions run so high that we lose the ability to consider this tragic situation objectively.

Place yourself in a situation where you are walking home and someone starts following you. You are unarmed, but this unknown person is dogging you and you don't know his intent. What would you do? Stand your ground or run?
CWS

Until we are in a situation like this, we can only speculate on what a person should do because reality has a way of changing our response. As I considered this, I recalled a time when I was a year or two younger than TM, and I was staying briefly at a house that wasn't my own in a different city and I was home alone - at night. Through I hadn't done anything except be in the wrong place at the wrong time, I found myself being pursued by a hostile guy who was bigger than me. I was initially tempted to run to the house where I was staying, but I was afraid that trouble would just follow me there and he perhaps might break into the house. So instead, I ran and hid (most residential neighborhoods offer many hiding spots in the dark).

Furthest from my mind would be to circle around and confront the person following me - but I'm not the aggressive type so others may act differently.

So if TM felt threatened, why didn't he run and hide and then when the guy following him passed by, and was safely away, then sprint to his nearby home, resulting in him being safe and his whereabouts unknown. Plus, TM had a phone. If he felt threatened, and wasn't himself combative or confrontational, why didn't TM call 911?

I still don't understand the six-person jury, and why two of those were NRA-pro gun members. Also, with race being a reasonable motivation by Zimmerman to follow and confront the victime, why was there no balance to the jury?
CWS

Are you suggesting that it would be more balanced to have the jury comprised of anti-gun rights people??? In this respect, the jury actually appears close to being balanced.

The Constitution specifies "an impartial jury" in the Bill of Rights to insure that the DEFENDANT is treated fairly. People who believe that the jury must have a particular racial makeup are themselves being racist (and committing racial profiling).

Keep in mind that the prosecuting attorney and the defense attorney had significant input in the jury selection, eliminating 9 out of every 10 potential jurors (6 resulting out of at least 56 originally). This jury wasn't thrust upon the prosecution or the defense.

[annunaki]

JUROR SPEAKS
TRAYVON THREW FIRST PUNCH
http://www.drudgereport.com/

Juror: 'No doubt' that Zimmerman feared for his life
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1

IT director who raised questions is fired
updated 10:16 AM EDT, Mon July 15, 2013
An employee of the Florida State Attorney's Office who testified that prosecutors withheld evidence from George Zimmerman's defense team has been fired.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justic...rticle_sidebar

[annunaki]

"From what I understand, TM came back and confronted GZ while he waited for the police to arrive"

It was TM who forced the confrontation with "What's your problem" ?
TM instigated and escalated that confrontation by throwing a punch breaking GZ's nose.
Prior to that there had been no physical contact.

Now for some Fun with Profiling....

Burglars prefer night over day- It was nighttime

Burglars prefer rear yards with sliding glass doors for greater viability to see better if anyone is home. -TM was in the rear alley, and the units had sliding glass doors.

Burglars also prefer a rear entrance so that they won't be seen by arriving or departing neighbors. TM was in the rear alley.

It was raining yet TM did not make a bee line for the residence where he had been staying.

Hoodies are often preferred by burglars because they obscure facial features.
TM was wearing a Hoodie.

TM has a past history of being found in possession of jewelery and a screw driver. - Screwdrivers are a popular burglar tool for prying open doors, windows, and popping & forcing auto ignitions.

Adding all but the last one up, gave GZ REASONABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE that TM was demonstrating questionable behavior

He fit the "CRIMINAL PROFILE OF A POSSIBLE BURGLAR"

One final thought. Since TM had no employment, where did he get money to buy Marijuana ?

[annunaki]

"Yeah, I'd rather be tried by 6 (12) than carried by 6 (12) or however that goes. "

6 = Number of Pallbearers to carry the Coffin

12 = Number of Jurors making a judgement of fate

Therefore - Better the 12 (you're still alive), than the 6 (you're Dead)

[Cochese]

No, he should not have done any of that.

But what I don't understand is how he got from witnessing the kid running away to getting a fight with him. Looking at that transcript it's clear TM was aware of GZ following him He ran away. The next thing you know they're fighting.

How did that happen?

From what I understand, TM came back and confronted GZ while he waited for the police to arrive. I can't say it's 100% true.

[JR]

So then GZ Should have just lain there while his head was pounded into the pavement, got a concussion to go with his already broken nose, and eventually gone unconscious,

No, he should not have done any of that.

But what I don't understand is how he got from witnessing the kid running away to getting a fight with him. Looking at that transcript it's clear TM was aware of GZ following him He ran away. The next thing you know they're fighting.

How did that happen?

[RAFlorida]

What 'Annunaki' has posted

has been facts. The jury did their job and everybody that thinks otherwise, should read how the law works, and be thankful for it. I've only seen jury trials fail twice in the last 20 some years, but I still believe it to be the best. Yeah, I'd rather be tried by 6 (12) than carried by 6 (12) or however that goes.

[cabinetman]

I think it's a bigger issue than we think. The problem could be linked to "hoodies". Seems like only criminals wear them. You see them on those guys that are "caught on tape" robbing stores, and B & E's. Maybe we should just outlaw hoodies.

.

[annunaki]

So then GZ Should have just lain there while his head was pounded into the pavement, got a concussion to go with his already broken nose, and eventually gone unconscious, then maybe strangled, and by not using his weapon to stop what was happening to him, made him "at fault in your mind"

The fault lies with who escalated the confrontation beyond words and struck the first blow, and the perpetrator of that assault was TM.

The point in time came when GZ had to decide "Do I want to be carried by six or judged by twelve"

To his credit, he chose the later.

Were he the Hateful Racist they tried to make him out to be, he would have emptied his gun in the Ne'er Do Well

[JR]

http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...zimmerman.html

I might have to have that pointed out to me.

The problem I have had all along, and still have, is that I still don't understand how the situation wen from this exchange:
"Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood. Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...****ing [unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.",
to a physical altercation between the two parties.

I have no reason to believe Zimmerman's motivation was anything other than neighborhood watch duty, but he messed up badly, IMHO. Whatever his next actions were, they resulted in the death of that kid. The facts as presented in court were clearly insufficient to support the indictment, but Zimmerman is at fault in my mind.

[annunaki]

The "P" Word Ohhhhhhhh !!!!

In our gelded, cowardly, Politically Correct, sick society, another word has become inflaming to the ignorant, and misused by the poorly read - it's the "P" Word- PROFILING

Profiling is good, and serves many useful purposes, but like a good medication, if misused then it can be bad.

That misuse is called "Racial Profiling", not "Profiling".

The Law Enforcement community use Profiling all the time when searching for a Serial Killer, or Kidnapper, and other criminals.(Psychological Profile)

Auto Insurance Companies profile neighborhoods for crime statistics in figuring rates.

Life Insurance Companies do it too, but they have a fancier name for it called "Actuary Tables", for which we all pay unequal rates.

Fast Food chains do it to see if a location has enough traffic to support a franchise - they call it "a Demographic Study".

Thinking about getting a Dog ? Check out the Profiles of different breeds under the cover word "Temperament"

So beware the user's of Broad Paint Brushes when it comes to the word Profile

[phrog]

Gentlemen,

This discussion is full of discussion of a political / religious / racial nature. While none of the posts I have read thus far have crossed the line, this entire thread treads dangerously close to that line. Please remain courteous to your fellow members, and keep on the correct side of the rules. We do not want to have to take adminsitrative action, however this topic has the potential for doing a lot of damage to our community here.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and then have a Twinkie. They're baaack.