Soy Gel ?

[tommyt654]

I recently inherited some nice 70-80 yr old maple furniture that I'm going to refinish and give to my grandaughter. Has anyone here used the soy gel from Rockler or can recommend a finish remover, Its prolly laquer judging from the finish color and fairly heavy so I'm looking towards getting a couple of chest of drawers, a settee and bureau and headbord and nightstand done before the end of Feb if possible. Also anyone have a Rockler code, my wife apparently thru out my last one I had received as she thought it was junk mail.,Thanks,Tommy

[cabinetman]

I might make a suggestion to try Citrastrip stripping gel. It's available at HD, and has about the same chemical composition (you can check the MSDS's) as Rockler's Soy Gel, and is likely cheaper.

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[woodturner]

Has anyone here used the soy gel from Rockler or can recommend a finish remover, Its prolly laquer judging from the finish color

If it's really lacquer, lacquer thinner will dissolve it and makes a relatively safe stripper to use. If you are just looking to "rejuvenate" the finish, softening it with lacquer thinner will cause lacquer to soften and flow together, so it will repair finish cracking and crazing.

I have used SoyGel, but I don't know if the Rockler version is the "real stuff" or a clone or copy. SoyGel works very well, better than the Citrus based strippers in my experience - I've had no luck with Citrus strippers, they don't seem to dissolve the finishes I have encountered.

I think Sherwin Williams still sells the pink goupy stuff - sorry, can't think of the name offhand. It's expensive - used to be $50 for a gallon - but it's pretty safe and works very well.

[cabinetman]

If it's really lacquer, lacquer thinner will dissolve it and makes a relatively safe stripper to use. If you are just looking to "rejuvenate" the finish, softening it with lacquer thinner will cause lacquer to soften and flow together, so it will repair finish cracking and crazing.

Without knowing for sure what the finish is, using lacquer thinner would be a bad choice. It's a mistake many hobbyists make in picking a fix, which is usually one that's most convenient instead of one that's most effective. There's hazards in using lacquer thinner, as far as toxic vapors, and spillage and splashing. It's best to do some research as to the most appropriate product.

I have used SoyGel, but I don't know if the Rockler version is the "real stuff" or a clone or copy. SoyGel works very well, better than the Citrus based strippers in my experience - I've had no luck with Citrus strippers, they don't seem to dissolve the finishes I have encountered.

Waterbase strippers work very well for what they are and their ease of use. They aren't the strongest of removers. It may take more than one application. I'm surprised that you got different results from Soy Gel and a citrus stripper, as they are basically the same product. But, use whatever you're happy with.

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[woodturner]

Without knowing for sure what the finish is, using lacquer thinner would be a bad choice.

Lacquer thinner is likely a good choice. If the furniture was professionally finished, the finish is most likely Lacquer or shellac, since those finishes best meet the needs of the pro shop and were widely used in the furniture manufacturing business when these pieces were made.

If the finish is not lacquer or a closely related solvent-based finish, the lacquer thinner will simply have no effect - it won't harm anything. Lacquer thinner is relatively non-toxic and benign, the worst side effect being the risk of intoxication if not used with adequate ventilation.

I'm surprised that you got different results from Soy Gel and a citrus stripper, as they are basically the same product.

Not sure why you think they are the same product, as the two strippers are completely different products. Also, SoyGel is nearly non-toxic, while CitriStrip is quite toxic.

The active ingredients in Citristrip are Dimethyl glutarate, Dimethyl adipate, Citrus, ext., and Polyethoxylated cocamine (from the MSDS, available here: http://www.wmbarr.com/msds.aspx?catid=10

Note also the MSDS states "This material is classified as hazardous under OSHA regulations." and lists five toxic chemicals in the toxicology section of the MSDS (section 11).

In contrast, SoyGel is much safer and more effective. The MSDS available here http://www.franmar.com/images/msds/sg_ghs.pdf lists the ingredients as N-Methyl Pyrrolidone, Dibasic Ester - LVP, Soy Ester, and Proprietary Thickening And Surfactant Blend. Note also that nothing is listed in the toxicology section, since SoyGel does not contain toxic substances.

In any event, I'm sure tommyt654 understands the situation and will make good choices for his application.

[chopnhack]

http://www.finefurniturefinishing.co...stripping.html

[cabinetman]

Lacquer thinner is actually a very good choice, though I can appreciate how an inexperienced person might not understand that. If the furniture was professionally finished, the finish is most likely Lacquer or shellac, since those finishes best meet the needs of the pro shop and are used almost universally in the furniture manufacturing business.

If the finish is not lacquer or a closely related solvent-based finish, the lacquer thinner will simply have no effect - it won't harm anything. Lacquer thinner is relatively non-toxic and benign, the worst side effect being the risk of intoxication if not used with adequate ventilation.

You've just proved my point. Amateurs and hobbyists aren't familiar with the chemistry of the products that can be bought off the shelf. Like I said, those products are ones of convenience, and may present health hazards. As for what effects lacquer thinner has on finishes, it's a solvent that will dissolve or react with most any finish, including oil base finishes, lacquer based, water based, and shellac. Obviously you aren't aware of that.

Fortunately the broad discussions in a forum like this can educate individuals like yourself in the use of certain chemicals with their projects. Not being familiar with the warnings that accompany products, here is a little bit about lacquer thinner in response to your statement above...
"If the finish is not lacquer or a closely related solvent-based finish, the lacquer thinner will simply have no effect - it won't harm anything. Lacquer thinner is relatively non-toxic and benign, the worst side effect being the risk of intoxication if not used with adequate ventilation."

From the MSDS..
http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/L...%205-21-09.pdf
Health Hazards (Acute and Chronic)
Inhalation Acute Exposure Effects:
Vapor harmful. May cause dizziness; headache; watering of eyes; irritation of respiratory tract; weakness;
drowsiness; nausea; numbness in fingers, arms and legs; depression of central nervous system; loss of appetite;
fatigue; hallucinations; light headedness; visual disturbances; giddiness and intoxication; sleepiness; cough and
dyspnea; cold, clammy extremities; diarrhea; vomiting; dilation of pupils; spotted vision. Severe overexposure
may cause convulsions; unconsciousness; coma; and death. Intentional misuse of this product by deliberately
concentrating and inhaling can be harmful or fatal.
Skin Contact Acute Exposure Effects:
May be absorbed through the skin. May cause irritation; numbness in the fingers and arms; drying of skin; and
dermatitis. May cause increased severity of symptoms listed under inhalation.
Eye Contact Acute Exposure Effects:
This material is an eye irritant. May cause irritation; burns; conjunctivitis of eyes; and corneal ulcerations of the
eye. Vapors may irritate eyes.
Ingestion Acute Exposure Effects:
Poison. Cannot be made non-poisonous. May be fatal or cause blindness. May cause dizziness; headache;
nausea; vomiting; burning sensation in mouth, throat, and stomach; loss of coordination; depression of the central
nervous system; narcosis; stupor; gastrointestinal irritation; liver, kidney, and heart damage; diarrhea; loss ofappetite; coma and death. May produce symptoms listed under inhalation.
Chronic Exposure Effects:
Reports have associated repeated and prolonged overexposure to solvents with neurological and other
physiological damage. Prolonged or repeated contact may cause dermatitis. Prolonged skin contact may result in
absorption of a harmful amount of this material. May cause conjunctivitis; gastric disturbances; insomnia;
dizziness; headache; weakness; fatigue; nausea; heart palpitations; skin irritation; numbness in hands and feet;
permanent central nervous system changes; some loss of memory; pancreatic damage; giddiness; visual
impairment or blindness; kidney or liver damage; and death. May cause symptoms listed under inhalation.
Target Organs: Central Nervous System, Liver, Kidney, Heart, Stomach, Respiratory System
Primary Routes of Entry: Inhalation, Ingestion, Skin Absorption

I sincerely hope you make a point to understand the dangers.

There are a number of good books and resources if you decide you want to learn to finish (or refinish) wood.

I'm going to disregard that statement, in light of the fact that I do finishing and refinishing for a living, and am writing my own book. I would suggest that it would do you well as you aren't familiar with what professionals use or what finishes are common for production furniture.

Not sure why you think they are the same product, you usually get a little closer when you search the internet for information to post.

I can't compare with the extent of some. I must be slipping I guess.

The two strippers are completely different products, and SoyGel is nearly non-toxic, while CitriStrip is quite toxic.

The active ingredients in Citristrip are Dimethyl glutarate, Dimethyl adipate, Citrus, ext., and Polyethoxylated cocamine (from the MSDS, available here: http://www.wmbarr.com/msds.aspx?catid=10

Note also the MSDS states "This material is classified as hazardous under OSHA regulations." and lists five toxic chemicals in the toxicology section of the MSDS (section 11).

In contrast, SoyGel is much safer, in addition to much more effective. The MSDS available here http://www.franmar.com/images/msds/sg_ghs.pdf lists the ingredients as N-Methyl Pyrrolidone, Dibasic Ester - LVP, Soy Ester, and
Proprietary Thickening And Surfactant Blend. Note also that nothing is listed in the toxicology section, since SoyGel does not contain toxic substances.

You did an exemplary job of searching the internet for some info. But, in order to make your case, you left out the common ingredient (N-Methyl Pyrrolidone) from your Citristrip listing of ingredients.

In any event, I'm sure tommyt654 understands the situation and will make good choices for his application.

I agree.

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[cabinetman]

As a actual professional, I am very familiar with both finishes and professional usage.

I'm glad you at least learned about lacquer thinner today.

Guess I will once again have to add you to the ignore list

Good

BTW...now you have a signature..."Hand-crafted Period Furniture for discerning clientele"
You've posted no work of any kind, or shown anything of what you claim. If any of it is true...post pictures.

.

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[tommyt654]

And in this corner weighing in at ---,Ok guys I get the bigger picture. Here's the deal, I will be working in a confined area and wanted something less noxious, hence my question about the soy based product. I have 2 months to get it done,so times not the issue here, mainly what won't get me high or intoxicated as I'm already on daily pain meds for the ankle. While I can appreciate both of your response's I will try the citrus stuff 1st and as long as it works well enough I will prolly continue its usage as Rocklers a bit more expensive and when I checked the HD site for soy gel the citrus stuff came up.I can appreciate both of ya'lls expertise in this matter,however please refrain from the grumpy old men syndrome I see so prevalent in our society nowadays and remember we are all friends here, lets try to keep it that way as I too have a hard time with G.O.M.S. and have to learn to deal with it daily after watching the news in the morning. I still have to get down to Mom's old house to get the rest of the furniture as for now I only have the 1 piece shown here and a few pics of the others as well. Some may think its not worth it,but it's my grandaughters great-grandmothers to be passed on after a good clean-up and refurb and likely to last another 70 yrs and be passed on top her children in the future

[cabinetman]

Here's the deal, I will be working in a confined area and wanted something less noxious, hence my question about the soy based product. I have 2 months to get it done,so times not the issue here, mainly what won't get me high or intoxicated as I'm already on daily pain meds for the ankle.

With your situation, you may want to consider some alternatives. For as many pieces as you have, it may not cost that much to have the furniture stripped commercially. Then all you have to do is the refinishing. Or, other than stripping, you could sand the finish, or just do minimum sanding and use a gel stain and film finish topcoat. There is no quick easy way.

.

[Stytooner]

If you guys feel like you are being watched, you are.
Lets take the challenges and animosity to PM's or elsewhere. Answer the OP if you want, but leave each other alone in the Forum. You both have valuable input on just about any topic, so I would like to see that resource continue.

[Stytooner]

Tommy, have you ever tried brake fluid as a stripper?
It is pretty cheap, not a lot of odor and works pretty well on a painted surface.
I have never tried it on varnish though.

[tommyt654]

Nope, I haven't,but BF has a nasty smell to it and if I recall is not water solvent and I want something to be able to get off cleanly after most of the stripping. The handles will be for the most part the only difficulty and a sponge and scrub pad will be the best option for getting in the grooves there and underneath them. But thanks for the info Lee.Cabman I might consider dropping by a place near Mom's to see what he might charge. Its not like I'm doing a lot right now due to the weather outside (no gardenin,fishin,shootin, etc ) Although I do have cabbage,collards,broccoli and cauliflower and lettuce in the garden doing well still. I built cold frames to cover them when I know a lot of colder weather is comin in and they are doin pretty well, Too cold n rainy for fishin lately and I'm workin on a new target rifle with a Mosin Nagant action and a machine gun barrel for the spring rifle competitions.

[woodturner]

Nope, I haven't,but BF has a nasty smell to it and if I recall is not water solvent and I want something to be able to get off cleanly after most of the stripping.

I've used brake fluid on paint and plastics, but never tried it on wood. It does tend to break down oils - which is why it is so readily absorbed into the skin.

If anyone has tried it for stripping wood, I'd be interesting in hearing about how that worked.

I might consider dropping by a place near Mom's to see what he might charge.

I haven't had anything commercially stripped in a while, but last time I did they used a caustic lye type solution. Had some issues with it raising the grain and opening joints. If you choose this option, it might be prudent to see some examples of the results to make sure it's what you want. I assume there are better options than lye products now, but still...