The Other Shoe Drops on Lance Armstrong

[JR]

We had a very spirited discussion on the topic of the pending allegations against Lance Armstrong, so I thought it appropriate to post a follow up.

Later today the USADA will release its 1,000 page "reasoned decision" in the Armstrong matter. This is the official document which is to be presented to the UCI, the ruling body of cycling, intended to show the pertinent facts in the matter. It should be noted that this document is not the entire case file, rather it is a summary of their findings.

In conjunction with the release of this report USADA has recommended six-month suspensions for six former Armstrong team mates: Levi Leipheimer, George Hincapie, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Dave Zabriskie, and Christian Vandevelde. Barry and Hincapie, who both previously announced their retirements at the end of this year, have already released statements admitting their past use of drugs.

According to USADA the evidence gathered includes: "direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding."

The apparent complicity of the six named riders is a great blow to American and Canadian (Barry is a Canuck) cycling. All of these men are hugely popular among cycling fans and have been successful on the European racing scene for many years. It is to cycling as the Black Sox scandal was to baseball.

The report should prove an interesting read.

JR

[JR]

I apparently got a fact wrong. The reasoned decision is 202 pages. The entire case file is 1,000 pages.

JR

[atgcpaul]

I saw the announcement today that George Hincapie admitted to doping. I liked Armstrong but liked Hincapie more. Just seemed like a genuine guy. Very disappointing. In the article, Hincapie said he wanted to stay involved in cycling so he could mentor young cyclists. Pass.

[cabinetman]

I was expecting this outcome.

.

[JR]

I've just finished skimming the Reasoned Decision. It reads like a novel. Wow.

There's a lot of rehashed stuff relating to the blood samples from 1999, Frankie and Betsie Andreu, the ACS litigation from 2005, etc. Even if you ingore this stuff, though, the combined testimony from from Armstrong's team mates is ovewhelming.

Even if one determines that their testimony is insufficient to prove doping, there is some critical evidence of Armstrong's invovlement with Dr. Michele Ferrari after Ferrari had been banned from cycling, and after Armstrong had said he was no longer involved with Ferrari. This information alone is worth a two-year ban. Taken all together it's an indictment of Armstrong's character that can't be ignored, not to mention the specific allegations.

JR

[herb fellows]

I believe there is a slight hiccup in the report. I'm not 100% on this, but pretty sure.
The part about taxpayers footing the bill I think is incorrect. At that point in time, the usps was self sufficient and did not use any taxpayer money for anything. I think they ended their sponsorship because it was getting too expensive.
I am very dissapointed, I really thought he was being railroaded but the evidence is starting to pile up. I can't imagine what he would have to say in his defense at this point in time.

[All Thumbs]

I'm not going to say "I told you so."

The real question is, what do we do (as a society) with guys like Armstrong?

[Black wallnut]

I'm not going to say "I told you so."

The real question is, what do we do (as a society) with guys like Armstrong?

Forgive him and move on. Just like Dewey being elected President, you'll forever be able to read the footnote in history books.

Where he messed up is his statement "It's not about the bike!" Rule #4!

[tommyt654]

"The real question is, what do we do (as a society) with guys like Armstrong", Start a racing league for enhanced riders, afterall its not just bikers doin the doping nowadays pretty much all athletes at some stage in their career have done or used some type of illegal doping whether with their knowledge or not.Much ado about nothin to me as they all do whatever they have o to win, whether cheating with drugs or any other means necessary to win, rampant in all sports

[natausch]

I guess he should have limited himself to 2 or 3 wins of the most grueling sporting event in existence. I have no problem with them stripping the wins and banning the participants who cheated; however, equal focus needs to be paid to all programs.

Doping is only an unfair advantage if only some of the participants are doing it. What a strange society we’ve created. On one hand we’re being force fed medications for conditions ranging from dry skin to night-time “jimmy-leg,” on the other hand we are holding athletes to the standard that their training regimen can only include approved enhancements. However, sadly the enhancements that are not sanctioned by the governing body are still, for the most part, approved by the FDA and other agencies for consumption by us mere mortals.

Maybe NASCAR is the superior sport, since the standards applied to shape, weight and componants are applied equally across the sport.

[BigguyZ]

Except NASCAR isn't a sport....

[All Thumbs]

I previously posted a link to an article that indicates that probably something like 8% of riders were doping. Here is the article (it is a great read):

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interv...chael-ashenden

Now, I was thinking back to my youth, when I'd see kids get caught cheating during an exam, or copying someone's homework, or even plagiarizing.

The argument made by the cheater was often "well, everyone does it."

The honest students didn't seem to univerally hold this view.

So when someone tells me "everyone is doing it," I think they are telling me a heckuva lot more about THEMSELVES than anyone else.

An interesting experiment for the bike racers would have been to ask them what percentage of their competitors they suspected of doping. I imagine that if you sorted the results in descending order, the top 8% would have been your most likely dopers.

[Mildoc]

Living in Texas I supported and believed Lance --- until now.

Sure doping is fairly common, but an organized plot like this involving the whole or most of the team is way beyond that.

[tommyt654]

"most grueling sporting event in existence"

Not hardly, try going to an I.S.D.T. qualifier, or better yet running in one. As an ex motocrosser and trials bike rider I can attest that the physical stamina to ride in competition is far more taxing than anything these guys will ever compete in.Not knocking the sport but try riding at breakneck speeds of 6-8 hrs just to qualify for the I.S.D.T. and horsing around 2-3OO lb. dirt bike thru mud,woods, roads,etc and then you can truly talk about real endurance racing.

"Except NASCAR isn't a sport"
Tell that to Jr. whose not racing this week due to complications (concussion) from injurys substained while racing.

"So when someone tells me "everyone is doing it," I think they are telling me a heckuva lot more about THEMSELVES"

Curious just how many professional or even amateur sports one's competed in too make a blanket statement like that about sports in general. I have played semi pro baseball,soccer,football, raced motocross professionally and drag raced and driven road racing automobiles in competition and played actively in sports all my life and with the exception of having destroyed my ankle 5 yrs ago I was still actively competing in 50 and older sports and would still be doing so today, yet I still think that supplements are being used at H.S and college levels which are rarely checked for doping to get too levels which they can fairly compete later in professional sports. So to assume that when someone says everyone is doing it prolly means at 1 time or another says something about themselves is ludicrous. Frankly like I said its much ado about nothing as we have seen where it leads in the long run.Perhaps the ban should be on the manufacturing of the substances alone to level the playing field,but even then folks will find a way around it in order to garner a win,thats just life

[Black wallnut]

"most grueling sporting event in existence"

Not hardly, try going to an I.S.D.T. qualifier, or better yet running in one. As an ex motocrosser and trials bike rider I can attest that the physical stamina to ride in competition is far more taxing than anything these guys will ever compete in.Not knocking the sport but try riding at breakneck speeds of 6-8 hrs just to qualify for the I.S.D.T. and horsing around 2-3OO lb. dirt bike thru mud,woods, roads,etc and then you can truly talk about real endurance racing.

How many calories does a motocross rider expend in a given day, racing or training? 2300 miles over three weeks with only 2 days off seems to be a bunch of endurance required to me. This is only one of the grand tours.

I'm not saying he did dope and I'm not saying he didn't. Does anyone really believe that the USADA would present anything other than what appears to be a ****ing case? That does not mean Lance doped. It does seem likely though, we'll never know for sure. Now that the other top cyclists of the era have admitted to doping it is likely that the playing field was level even with the doping. Had none of them doped I doubt the results would be any different.

Fair is fair so if they insist on taking his titles away the same should happen for those in any other sport, for example Barry Bonds.

Just like the picture President Truman holding a newspaper announcing that Dewey won, history will tell the story. Take the medals away and Lance will still be known as the 7 time winner of Le Tour de France with a footnote of the outcome of this scandal. I'm not sure the result was worth the effort and expense and the damage to Livestrong will be a great loss.