Training older folks. Any advice?

[atgcpaul]

So I've got a new employee with nearly 20 years in my industry who was laid off. His company was bought out and the workforce of several thousand lost their jobs. He came highly recommended both personally and professionally and had used much larger/complicated industrial systems at his previous job. We're at a smaller scale but doing similar work. To industry's credit, they've done these processes a million times and they've made the effort to "dumb" down the process to make it easier and to reduce cost. It's something I strive for in academia but until we get a lot more groundwork laid, it's not going to happen overnight.

He's struggling to remember all the processes involved to complete an order from start to finish. Our process isn't as automated as it in industry where a lot of the steps would be handled programatically. There's a lot of Excel involved here. He does keep a notebook but it's a little disjointed.

I learn best by demonstration and repitition and that's what I'm trying with him. Neither of us are sit down, read the SOP, and go do it type of people. It seems like he fits the "Can't teach an old dog new tricks" saying. It really does feel like trying to teach my dad how to use the computer which is a lot of frustration. He's not as old as my dad but not too far off.

We've both acknowledged that there's a problem but I'm at a loss at how to make him remember better. After a month on the job, he really should be at a higher level than this. I've trained a lot of people so I know my methods work--just not this time. My #2 has been with me for 3 years and she's thriving.

He's a great worker and has the perfect attitude for this job. I'm really in a niche type area so it's not an easy position to fill. I fired the last guy who picked up the computer stuff fast but wasn't willing to do the work. I don't want to prove to myself that the third time is the charm.

I don't want to be agist but this situation seems to fit that mold. Any advice on what to do to help someone who's older learn the computer better?

[JR]

Hmmm, tough problem.

How about breaking it down into smaller steps? Get each step nailed and have a tick box to check before moving on.

How about developing some macros to make the process a little more user friendly?

My experiece as a self-taught Excel user is that a lot of curiosity is required in order to become proficient. My attitude always was "I know what I want to do can be done, I just have to figure out how to do it." He needs to see Excel as a tool and that his mastery of the tool, escpecially as it relates to his job, is abolutely mandatory. Training may be in order, but my prefered method would be to establish what things Excel could be doing to make the process easier for him, then letting him figure out how to make it happen. (I'm presuming he doesn't need help with basic file structure, freqquent saving, and other fundamental computer skills. If he doesn't know that stuff you may have a problem.)

Just a few thoughts.
JR

[gsmittle]

Maybe coming at the process from the result and working toward the beginning would help. Not all of us learn best by repetition (although it does build proficiency). Perhaps he learns best by hearing the directions and finding the (I'm at a loss for a word here) item he needs to do next.

I find that often when I'm teaching students how to run the light or sound boards that if I guide them through the process but let them find the proper button on their own they retain the information faster.

Not knowing what industry we're talking about here makes this a little more difficult to discuss. OTOH, I'm not much use to any industry. Someday I'll have to pick up a marketable skill.

g.

[leehljp]

I don't know if I can help you or not, but I see that you are looking for ideas.

Is this a project that can be done by making a step by step list, only step by step in sections?

I have taken people who were totally bewildered by a layout program and had them going for the basic layout within an hour and then down to a "few" details in another hour. Then there is LOML that still does not get "it."

For LOML, I had to do a long detailed step by step, as in System>Library>fonts>… only written out. Then page two, then page three, then "IF this, then that" or "IF that, then not this".

Then color code headings of the lists according to different functions.

LOML responds better on a computer things by using long detailed lists, and she can work with long lists of "how to" - to operate something that drives me up the wall! But several times, I have spent a day or two to write up and revise operational lists on an application or program to get her to doing things such as basic layout on a word processor (more simple than MS Word).


A second thing to consider is this: No matter how good the attitude he has towards you, I have found that some people respond better to mid level trainers than they do to the top level trainers. In some fields, the fellow hired last quarter are used to train those that start today, and with some good success. Too brilliant or smart or good of a trainer is an intimidator to others. - Similar to the "white coat syndrome" in the medical field. Let the nurse take the blood pressure rather than the doctor.


This is not directly related to you, but the situation and results were astounding. Seven years ago, I had to train a Korean American who is 19 years older than me. There was a little tension because of the cultural differences and me being quite younger than him. I just told him what to do and how. I gave him basic guidance and expectations and he listened. I also put him with others doing the same thing and he picked up from them. He became so effective in his work (non computer work) that I did all of his reports for him on my computer. That was a no-no in our work, but again, he was so effective that he made me and our whole team look good. My supervisor told me that I couldn't do his reports. I told him that for that kind of production, I could not afford to NOT do his reports. A higher up supervisor agreed with me.

[atgcpaul]

I appreciate the input so far. Always good to hear from people who aren't close to the situation

I'm in science but what we do for the lab is fairly "assembly line". I am a hybrid of a scientist/chemist/programmer/db admin/engineer/technician. He was hired to do the engineer/tech part and we do have to touch on SQL queries which I have already written. They're plug and chug.

In leui of the LIMS system which I'm working on, we use Excel to organize our data and prepare input files for the various automated robotic systems we use. In industry all these systems are physically integrated. Groups like mine would have a budget of $10mil+. I work with a fraction of that, so, us, the operators, walk the different components of the experiment from station to station which is fed by those Excel files. I've written VBA macros to simplify the most complicated steps but there are a lot of steps because we need to wait for the output of one machine before we can proceed to the next one.

Anyway, I have tried the approach backwards and forwards. Like, "we know what the end product is, what do we do to get there?" "White coat" was a consideration so I've had my #2 work with him here and there. So we werent totally frustrated I had him take a break from training (i didnt tell him this) and work on reprogramming one of our robots for a complicated job we have coming up. He's used one before and it worked out so i think that helped boost his morale. He is getting it but I'm looking for ways in the future to make things stick faster. There are a lot of details to remember so I will try to focus on individual components and have him string them together.

[Sweet Willy]

I'm a retired graphics supervisor. The graphics company I worked for had over a hundred employees who created ads for a direct mail advertising company and everything we did was computer generated. The truth is, sometimes older folks just don't get it. I had to let a 60 year old man go because he didn't understand the grahics program we used (Quark) and insisted the entire complany change over to Pagemaker.
But, here's one thing that may be helpful. Let the man know that excel is a tool. He does not have to know how it works. He does not have to fix it if it breaks. He just has to learn how to use the tool and let the tool the work. I hated computers even when I was in college (didn't go to college until I was 36) until I decided I don't care how it does what it does as long as it does it. After that, it was a matter of learning keystrokes, etc. I wound up supervising all those computer artist/geeks and used any number of programs for payroll, attendance, evaluations, communications, etc.

[cabinetman]

What might help is to show him what he needs to know with the idea that he will be teaching others. He may see things in a different way.

.

[Stytooner]

I have found the need to learn quite a bit of different software over the past few years. I am better with some than others, but I am getting good enough at them to do what I need it to do. LOML uses Excel, so any occasion I need that, I get her help. Took her awhile to learn that.

The absolute best training tools I have ever used for any of this software are video tutorials. Most of the software I use had a long list of basic to medium tutes and allows you to become familiar with the interfaces and tools. Then you start to develop a flow. You just start getting it.
Software with fewer videos are more of a struggle for me, but I eventually overcome.

This is what works best for me and now before I ever buy a piece of software, I research what types and amounts of tutorials are available for it. You may have to setup a video screen catcher that records both your comments and conversations during the video. Take him through the entire process while recording and then break the videos down into tool or process names so that he might be able to review that part when he gets stuck.
That same video might be a useful tool for others in the future, so really not time wasted.

[toolguy1000]

"dumbdown" the process and incentivise success. this usually works for me. there are only two kinds of people in the world. those that can learn and those that won't. which is he?

[woodturner]

So we werent totally frustrated I had him take a break from training (i didnt tell him this) and work on reprogramming one of our robots for a complicated job we have coming up.

This may be part of the solution. He was laid off after working for years for a company. We often see PTSD symptoms in laid off workers. One of the more common symptoms is difficulty remembering and difficulty organizing tasks. Fortunately, most people overcome this on their own, but it may take a year or so.

Another issue I see from time to time in my engineering students is that they have a different "view" than I and their fellow students. I can present the material in lecture and most of the students "get it" - but there is usually one or two who don't. The trick for me is figuring out what is different about their perceptions, and then figuring out how to express the material differently in a way that works for them.

People are usually either visual, auditory, or experiential learners. If you can figure out which he is and can structure the training to emphasize that mode of learning, he will likely be better able to learn the process.

[RodKirby]

Approaching my 70th , and having been in the IT industry for most of my working life, I have needed to change my "method of working".

1. Accept that my memory "ain't what it used to be".
2. Accept that I don't need to know all the details, to get things done.

I now WRITE down what I need to do "tomorrow" - I can't rely on remembering (I LOVE Win7 sticky notes ).

Maybe this guy won't "surrender gracefully the things of youth"?

[leehljp]

As we age, there often comes with it a fear of "new" things. The "fear" of new things seem to just clog up the learning process, no matter what.

Our Organization went though 3 different accounting systems in 2010 (for on-field/other country work. The old one until March 1; a temporary one until December 1, and a new one online from December 1. I was glad that I was coming home. I called begged and pleaded to be able to use the temporary one through the end of the year.

These type of things work OK if we were given on-field help, but Nooo, online and email help only for some complicated multiple currency exchange rates for country to country travel, on-field operating expenses and other. It was too much for me. I was glad to leave simply because of that.

Rod's comments made me laugh! I can handle routines and constant variations to routine, but it is the totally new that scares me.

AND with coming home, it has been an adjustment communicating on the finer points. I was recently asked if I would willing to help a group of people in an organization. I said "Yes, I'd be glad to." We were interrupted before we could complete the conversation. Next thing I knew, I was being nominated to become a member!!!! It makes me hesitant and slightly paranoid in conversations because I am afraid that I might not understand all the variables of this culture! I sure was more relaxed in the Japanese culture!

[Carpenter96]

Training Older Folks

Hi there. I am a professional Carpentry instructor and run into this type of thing all the time perhaps you could hire a computer teaching specialist to tutor him and give him an incentive. I also used to be a Plant manager in plastics manufacturing where I had to "retrain" people with a lot of experience at another company with different proceedures. My wife is a computer training specialist and I have seen her have great sucess with some older clients (82 years old). The bottom line is if he can do the job is he willing to do this. If he is his experience in the other parts of the job could add to your bottom line. Regards Bob McDermid