Gosh Darn Copy Protection ##$%^&

[Mr__Bill]

Some time back I made a VCR tape of 6 hours from a bunch of kiddie shows. Most of these were Disney and the tape was for a neighbor to use in his van to keep the kids occupied on trips, he owned the original tapes. One tape was all that was needed for a trip, too and back. Well they got a new van last year and it only has a DVD player. I now have a VCR to DVD unit and was asked to make a new DVD like the old tape. He still had all the original tapes. Here is where it went wrong. The old VCR units copied just fine but the new VCR to DVD refuses to copy with the message "Protected Content". The 6 hour VCR tape may copy but it's been damaged, so I'll never know, and I don't have the old VCR units either.
Anyone know how the copy protection works? Is there a way around it? I think that even if he buys new DVDs he will not be able to combine them on to a single disk.
I was thinking that perhaps the output from the VCR could be brought into the computer and the DVD assembled there, but none of my computers have video inputs. It would be fun to play with it it worked.
It really aggravates me that someone who owns the tape can't make a copy to use on his DVD player.

sheesh, perhaps I should just put a rant off cue here and say thanks for listening.....

Bill
If you are wondering just why he needs the same videos 5 years later, well it's a new batch of grand kids that came with his new wife.

[jdon]

It is aggravating not being able to make a copy of a legitimately owned video. You might want to check out VideoHelp.com - all sorts of useful information.

[cabinetman]

I ran across this bit of info...maybe it will help.

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[Chris_B]

Yep. A major-league PITA. The DMCA is right up there with AMT for rage-inducing legislation...

For older tapes, you need something that removes Macrovision from the signal. There are SW-only tools, but they obviously require a video input to your PC. A good HW solution is probably more than you want to spend, but I used an older version of this (see below) to transfer a bunch of our kids' VHS tapes to much more durable (and space-efficient) DVDs. It worked great.


For working with DVDs or Blu-rays, check out DVDFab. They have a free basic version, but I use their $$$ edition to create digital copies for our portable devices. Works like a champ, and they keep it up to date.

[JoeyGee]

No offense, but aren't you now spending more time on this issue than your neighbor would swapping DVD's in his vehicle? DVD's in any type of multiple case will take up less room than his old VHS tape...

[Mr__Bill]

It is aggravating not being able to make a copy of a legitimately owned video. You might want to check out VideoHelp.com - all sorts of useful information.

Thanks, lots of info there, may take a while to wade through it but I'll give it some time.

I ran across this bit of info...maybe it will help.

.

Interesting, I like the last option, analog capture box.

For older tapes, you need something that removes Macrovision from the signal. There are SW-only tools, but they obviously require a video input to your PC. A good HW solution is probably more than you want to spend, but I used an older version of this (see below) to transfer a bunch of our kids' VHS tapes to much more durable (and space-efficient) DVDs. It worked great.

I saw this on Amazon, EasyCAP USB It's under 10 bucks and may work the same as the Red Pro.

No offense, but aren't you now spending more time on this issue than your neighbor would swapping DVD's in his vehicle? DVD's in any type of multiple case will take up less room than his old VHS tape...

No offense taken, and you are right. He has been swapping the disks but... then there is the option of what disk next and that involves fighting between the kids, all on one it's just what comes next is what they get.

At this point for me it's a problem to be solved and it intrigues me, so now it's more my entertainment than a project for the neighbor that keeps me on it.

Thanks all for the good advice, I'll let you know what works or if I give up on it.

Bill

[woodturner]

Why not just buy the DVD version of the tapes?

It's technically illegal to copy a tape or DVD that you do not own - so, technically, copying it for your neighbor is illegal. While you are unlikely to get caught, it's still not "right" from the legal perspective.

[Kristofor]

Interesting, I like the last option, analog capture box.
Bill

This will be a lot more time and effort... Starting with a digital copy it's easy to rip and encode, then stick on an iPod, or media player of your choice. If there's not native support for iPod in their media systems, they probably at least have input jacks that will work. At quality levels acceptable for kids cartoon content you'll fit hundreds of hours on a largish capacity device.

Why not just buy the DVD version of the tapes?

It's technically illegal to copy a tape or DVD that you do not own - so, technically, copying it for your neighbor is illegal. While you are unlikely to get caught, it's still not "right" from the legal perspective.

I agree with the approach of going digital, but it's pretty easy to "give" the tape to Bill, he then makes his legal backup copy and then "gives" the tape and backup back to his neighbor... Even the MPAA goobers aren't spending much effort on tracking down VHS dubbers these days.

[buckeye95]

Interesting aspect.

One thing that is unclear to me though....how come I can buy an MP3 on Amazon and install it on both my laptop and phone (which I use as an MP3 player), yet making a copy of a DVD is illegal? I looked at converting some movies I own on DVD for a format to watch on my Blackberry (for viewing on an airplane, etc.) and found out it was a huge pain (and from what is stated above, even illegal).

I just don't understand why one media type (MP3) is wide open while another (DVD) is so restrictive. Though I do not partake in Torrent sites, etc., I know that a lot of this content is available online (albeit illegal) for free. I don't think that unlocking DVDs will hurt sales much - those on the up and up will still buy them. The current system sure makes it a pain for legitimate users.

Thanks for sharing the information.

Regards,

Pete

Why not just buy the DVD version of the tapes?

It's technically illegal to copy a tape or DVD that you do not own - so, technically, copying it for your neighbor is illegal. While you are unlikely to get caught, it's still not "right" from the legal perspective.

[Cochese]

Making a copy isn't illegal. The DCMA allows for this. However, circumventing the copy protection is the illegal part.

However, I'd like to see a case brought against someone for making digital copies of their analog material. So many consumer products cater to the very assumption that you are doing it.

[buckeye95]

So basically, you are allowed to make copies per the DCMA as long as you don't break the copy protection, but you are forced to break the copy protection to make a copy?

Believe me, I am all for protecting IP and paying the artists / producers for the work they have created, but doesn't the presence of the copy protection break my fundamental right as a consumer to copy the legitimate IP I have legally obtained usage of? Am I missing something?

In my case, the Disney DVDs at our house sure take a beating. It would be nice when one was purchased to be able to make a working backup copy the kids could use, and keep the original put away for safe keeping.

Sorry for the threadjack

Pete

Making a copy isn't illegal. The DCMA allows for this. However, circumventing the copy protection is the illegal part.

However, I'd like to see a case brought against someone for making digital copies of their analog material. So many consumer products cater to the very assumption that you are doing it.

[woodturner]

Making a copy isn't illegal.

Making a copy of material you do not own is illegal. One is permitted to make one "backup copy" of copyrighted material one owns, provided no more than one copy is in use at any one time.

[Cochese]

That's what I meant.

[woodturner]

So basically, you are allowed to make copies per the DCMA as long as you don't break the copy protection,

No, that's not quite right. It is illegal to make, sell, or disseminate tools to break the copy protection. It is not illegal for an individual to break the copy protection or use those tools.

The wiki has a reasonable treatment of this topic:
DCMA

[buckeye95]

So it is legal for me to break the copy protection to make a copy for my personal backup. But in doing so, I must get the software to break the copy protection from somewhere, so even though it is not illegal for me to possess or use this software, I have to obtain it from a source that is breaking the law by at least making and disseminating it.

From what I have read so far, it is legal to make a copy, but in doing so you must inherrently support someone else doing something illegal (developing/distributing the copy protection cracking software).

No, that's not quite right. It is illegal to make, sell, or disseminate tools to break the copy protection. It is not illegal for an individual to break the copy protection or use those tools.

The wiki has a reasonable treatment of this topic:
DCMA