Need help with computer build..

[chopnhack]

Hi guys, I know a bunch of you are quite computer savy and would like your input. I have built several systems in the past, but its been awhile....

I need a fast pc, fast to boot, majority of my work is spreadsheet and web surfing related, however I do want the ability to process video, specifically video capture from cable box. I am trying to get to the $500 mark and I am bit over and wanted opinions on where I should shave. Here are the components under consideration:

Computer

Part Description Price Shipped Total
RC-310-BWN1-GP Coolermaster tower $28.32
Phenom II X4 965 Black AM3 CPU 3.4gh $179.99
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H MB $138.69
Corsair CMPSU-550VX 550-Watt PS $79.99
Kingston ValueRAM 4 GB : 2 x 2 GB $114.74
Barracuda 7200 1.5 TB SATA 3G $89.99

Missing from the list is an OS, and I was considering using my XP, but I would like some input on that as well.
Thanks in advance.

[hophop]

If you don't plan to add many extra devices to the PC, I think you can save the money on the Power Supply and spend more on something else: Find a case + PS combo (don't need anything more than 350 Watts) at a cheaper price.

You will process lots of video, so extra storage is a must. The 1.5 TB drive will run out very quickly. Use an older, small-capacity drive a the main boot drive that contains the OS and other programs that you use. Save the big drive for data and video storage. Computers have a tendency to be loaded with junk over times, so every now and then, you will need to restore the boot drive to its clean state. Having the separate data drive is good practice.

Hopefully you picked out the CPU after research so that it has enough raw power to deal with video editing, but see if you can find an equivalent MB+CPU combo that will save you a bit more.

Nothing else that you listed can be saved. They are the bare minimum already. If you plan to re-use other things from your old PC such as mouse, keyboard, DVD-ROM drive,.. might as well re-use the case+PS and save some.

As you plan on using WinXP, the 32-bit version does support up to 4 Gb of RAM, but some motherboard will support up to 3 Gb. The rest is not used. In my opinion, anything more than 2 Gb of RAM in a home environment is a waste. You might be able to save some more here.

Don't load (install) many junk in your PC.

I still like my XP. Would not trade it for Vista or Win 7

[woodturner]

Part Description Price Shipped Total
RC-310-BWN1-GP Coolermaster tower $28.32
Phenom II X4 965 Black AM3 CPU 3.4gh $179.99
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H MB $138.69
Corsair CMPSU-550VX 550-Watt PS $79.99
Kingston ValueRAM 4 GB : 2 x 2 GB $114.74
Barracuda 7200 1.5 TB SATA 3G $89.99

Missing from the list is an OS, and I was considering using my XP, but I would like some input on that as well.

If you can wait, you can typically get 4 Gb of RAM for $30 to $40 after rebate. If you can live with running a single application at a time, a single core processor will save money and increase speed.

I would also look at the "bare bones" packages at Tiger Direct. They often have exception deals with exceptional discounts by buying them in a package.

Regarding operating systems, if you are going with windows, then win7 is the best choice. XP and NT are phasing out, Vista will not be supported forever, and Win7 offers significant enhancements for your applications.

If you are willing to deal with a few rough edges, consider Ubuntu (Linux). Kind of clunky and quirky, but it's free and relatively fast.

[pelligrini]

Some good advice so far. It's been a while since I built a new rig as well. I've been a little lax about keeping up with the latest tech.

For encoding, you really want to stick with a multi-core processor and a 64 bit OS. Just make sure your encoding programs take advantage of SMP.

Do you already have some hardware for getting signals from the cable box into the computer? It didn't look like the mobo alone would do it when I looked at the specs on the gigabyte website.

[sparkeyjames]

Part Description Price Shipped Total
RC-310-BWN1-GP Coolermaster tower $28.32
Phenom II X4 965 Black AM3 CPU 3.4gh $179.99
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H MB $138.69
Corsair CMPSU-550VX 550-Watt PS $79.99
Kingston ValueRAM 4 GB : 2 x 2 GB $114.74
Barracuda 7200 1.5 TB SATA 3G $89.99

Missing from the list is an OS, and I was considering using my XP, but I would like some input on that as well.
Thanks in advance.

If your going to use Windows XP consider a dual core instead of a quad core cpu. XP will only use 2 of the cores (I think). If you intend on later using Windows 7 then the quad core is fine. Do some more shopping at Newegg.com. There are a plethora of choices. In 5 minutes I came up with this....

MSI AM3 motherboard with Nvidia 8200 integrated graphics. $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130235

Gskill 4GB 2x2GB ddr3 memory. $101.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231193

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor $159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103674

You could even cut back the CPU horsepower even further and save even more. 200 or 400 MHZ slower is not going to affect performance all that much and it will save you $$ to apply elsewhere. Also cut back the 1.5TB hard drive to a 1TB and save another $30. This will leave room to buy the video signal input card you will also need. Also don't skimp on the power supply get the best you can afford to buy.
With those saving you could also upgrade the case slightly. I like the choice of starting with an integrated graphics chip and having a graphics card slot for future upgrade. I also prefer Nvidia graphics solutions over ATI. It's a personal thing involving an old video card from 1999 that had the worlds worst driver software that they refused to fix. I'm sure the newer stuff is better. Hmmff.
I like MSI products. I have one computer I built with an MSI motherboard that has been in operation since 2001. It's a computer I built for an ex-gf. She still has it and uses it every day.
My previous personal computer was built at the same time and gave up the ghost only last year and it had an MSI motherboard in it too. The bios chip fried after almost 8 years of use. I have had several graphics cards from various manufacturers and the MSI ones have lasted the longest.

Jim

[pelligrini]

If your going to use Windows XP consider a dual core instead of a quad core cpu. XP will only use 2 of the cores (I think).

XP will support up two 2 processor 'packages'. We've got an older 3D rig at the office with dual quadcores and XP as the OS. It will see all 8 cores.

At the time we had some problems with a couple pieces of software and Windows64. Vista had just come out and it wasn't getting good reviews. I wanted to go with a 64 bit OS, but I got talked out of it. XP worked, but there were some issues. A 3D program would lock up occaisionally on a large drawing. I finally tracked it down to the limitations of the OS and possibly the program. As soon as the memory usage for the program ht 2GB everything would come to a stop. "I told you so, should have gone with a 64bit OS"

[chopnhack]

Thanks all for the replies! Happy 4th! It's been pouring rain here for 3 days... gonna have some grumpy floridians on monday.

Hophop: The reason I went with that power supply is that I will be adding hardware as time goes forward, right away a video capture card and down the road as the requirements increase I will probably go from the onboard video to a pci-e. I also like the fact that there is a long warranty and the reviews seem to think its rather bullet proof. I will look around for a lower wattage as you suggest and see what pricing is available. Are there any other manufacturers you could recommend that are reliable?

The mobo was selected for usb 3.0 support. I didnt see many that are supporting it, if any one knows of other substitutes, let me know.

Storage is skimpy, but I tend to burn stuff to dvd and keep my platters relatively clean. I really love your idea of having a smaller drive for the os, an SSD would be perfect, but being a budget build would a partition serve the same purpose? If I could swing a second drive it would be for backing up the first as an image.

I don't think I can reuse the power supply because its an HP A600n and its 6+ years old, so to the best of my knowledge there is no sata or pci-e support. (ATX 2.03 not the newer 2.2)

The case is in good shape, I am not sure if the interior space would accommodate an atx board as the current board is micro ATX. All aside, it wouldn't be bad to have a spare pc for emergencies or perhaps it could be used for something else all together that I am overlooking...(hmm...shop computer, lol)

Woodturner - I am looking for ddr3 1066 ram, if you can find that at those prices, please provide me a link!

Pelligrini - I was thinking about one of Hauppages video capture cards, and I didnt want to get one of the older one's just so it would fit in the current pc and be obsolete in a year. And your right, staying with XP would save a few bucks, but would not allow me to take advantage of the technology. I will look around for prices on win7.

thanks again all!

[Hoover]

MSI and Gigabyte motherboards have done the best for me in longevity and quality. The built in video processors will work, unless you are a heavy gamer. New Egg and Zip, Zoom, Fly are good sites to buy, and check out their motherboard bundles.

[parnelli]

The mobo was selected for usb 3.0 support. I didnt see many that are supporting it, if any one knows of other substitutes, let me know.

Storage is skimpy, but I tend to burn stuff to dvd and keep my platters relatively clean. I really love your idea of having a smaller drive for the os, an SSD would be perfect, but being a budget build would a partition serve the same purpose? If I could swing a second drive it would be for backing up the first as an image.

Pelligrini - I was thinking about one of Hauppages video capture cards, and I didnt want to get one of the older one's just so it would fit in the current pc and be obsolete in a year. And your right, staying with XP would save a few bucks, but would not allow me to take advantage of the technology. I will look around for prices on win7.

I just built a VERY similar system- Black 955 processor with the mATX version of your board- the 890GXM-G65. They both have the ATI Radeon HD 4290 onboard, I just have a few slots less, and maybe some less raid options?

I went ATX for a couple reasons- the last several builds I've done, I don't find myself using any of the slots compared to years past. No more SCSI card, no more sound card etc etc. The other reason is that I got the board and processor from Fry's as a package deal for something like 200 plus tax just a few months back.

Previous builds I've done 4G, but went with 2G for this one. In my experience my OS (XP Pro) doesn't change much from 2 to 4. As you've noticed, RAM is double, triple, quadruple what it cost just a year ago..which is one of the factors in my using 2G..wish I had stocked up more.

Hard drives go on sale all the time though- go for what you can afford. 1TB is a good amount. 2TB can be found darn cheap if you catch the right sale. Offloading to DVD gets a)expensive and b)time consuming

As previously noted, XP has no problem with quad core chips.

USB3 is non-existent right now so it's not really usable even though the board has it.

I don't have a capture card on this machine, but downstairs I've got another one with two Hauppauge 500's (analogs) and one HDHomerun unit. Depending on your circumstances, I have no problems recommending the HDHomerun. That said, make sure that you can do what you think you want to do. Analog cable is becoming rarer by the day, and more times than not, the digital channels are not sent 'in the clear', meaning you're looking at having to use a cablecard and all the hassles therein.

[chopnhack]

I have even started looking at the 945 being that its just a little slower and uses less wattage. I will research the micro atx format some more and see if I can get by with less. The USB 3.0 is a safe guard as I typically keep my units until they are unuseable/obsolete (6-10 years easily).

I was told that my provider, which is Verizon Fios is using clear qam on its channels and doesnt send any analog signals anymore. My thought was to use the Hauppauge model xxxx and here is where most of the confusion lies for me. At first I thought I should get a pci card and use it in my existing setup, but after reading that many suffered system slowdowns, I figured that my system wasnt up to snuff....I am somewhat confused by all the terminology. If I am receiving Qam signals, is there any processing done? I understand that for analog you would want the hardware encoder to do the brute work instead of software, but does this apply to qam? Perhaps some of the reviews didnt specify what the exact problem was for them. Also, since pci doesnt work in pci-e, I didnt want to buy something and get stuck with a unit that wouldnt work in the next system. Can you tell me more about this video capture from cable?

Thanks!

[woodturner]

Woodturner - I am looking for ddr3 1066 ram, if you can find that at those prices, please provide me a link!

Best bet is to just watch the deal sites - slickdeals.net, etc. Best current price I could find is $99 at NewEgg. That's why I said "if you can wait" - there will be deals with rebates that will substantially lower than that, probably within the next month or two, but when and what price requires speculation.

Regarding multicore vs single core, single core processors are faster than multicore processors. The primary issue is heat dissipation - single cores dissipate less heat and can therefore run at a higher clock speed, making them faster than one core in a multiple core processor. However, if your application is written to efficiently use multicore processors (and many are not, yet), the benefit of spreading the task over multiple processors MAY increase throughput. The practical reality, currently, is that in most cases single core processors will run an application faster than multicore processors, but it is HIGHLY dependent on the particular application.

Another HUGE issue is memory bandwidth. Multicore processors have a single memory bus - and many applications are memory bandwidth bound. If your application is moving large amounts of data - image processing, for example - memory bandwidth is likely the limiting factor, so no processor can make any difference.

If speed is your primary concern, multiple single core processors will be much faster than a multicore processor, and it mitigates the memory bandwidth issue (separate memory busses for each CPU). It's tough to find motherboards that support more than two processors, but they are available if you are willing to pay the price.

It's like the hot rodders used to say - how fast can you afford to go?

[chopnhack]

LOL, i can afford to crawl along at a snail's pace....wait, or can I?! I have been out of the system build so long that its gonna take awhile to catch up to all of this! Is multicore not sufficiently supported by win7? I thought alot of the MS hype was that the new os could use it properly. I understand that currently more than 4 cores is a waste. Dual cpu would be overkill for me and way too much as well. Thanks for the thought though.

I did find a Gateway dx4300-15e on sale for 599.99 - desktop only with 18 months no financing charge.... specs show it to be decent only real drawbacks are ddr2 ram and only one pci-e slot as well as gateway's website not telling you more specifics like what mobo is in there, etc.

[viking4949]

My brother just got this refurb from geeks.com, he does a ton of video editing, and loves it. http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...3-PB-R&cpc=SCH

[chopnhack]

If I reuse my existing case and go with a mATX mobo I can get to about $413. This would mean keeping my existing drives and OS. The parts that would be replaced:
Phenom II X4 945 Black AM3 3.0Ghz CPU $145.95
GIGABYTE GA-880GMA-UD2H MB $102.99
Corsair CMPSU-400CX 400-Watt PS $49.99
Kingston ValueRAM - Memory - 4 GB mem $114.74

There is a $20 rebate on the PS so this would put us at around 390. Do you think I will run into problems doing this? As others have said, xp sp3 will run the other cores. The mobo still has support for usb 3.0 and has pci-e expansion. I might not need that video capture card, that HDhomerun mentioned earlier would be awesome for clear Qam, for already converted channels, i.e. whats being watched on the set top I have a leviton decor media center that send analog signal over cat5 (send/receive unit) so I can send that into the computer and perhaps with the right software, record. I am not sure what app I would use in XP, anybody?

Thanks again

[woodturner]

Is multicore not sufficiently supported by win7?

Mulitcore processors are "fully" supported by Win7, to the extent that any current operating system can support multiple cores. If you run four separate applications on a quad core processor under Win7, it will spread those applications over the four cores.

What no operating system or technology currently available (or conceived) will do is take a sequential program, figure out how to efficiently convert the algorithm into four parallel tasks, and then execute the program on four cores. It's a hot research area, but no solution is in sight currently.

Parts of this puzzle have been solved, but not the whole. For example, modern processors implement out-of-order execution - the processor is able to reorganize and reschedule instruction execution to better utilize the processor resources.

Programmers can also write their code to allow execution on multiple cores. The efficiency depends on the skill of the programmer and it requires rewriting the code. As a result, many existing applications have not yet been rewritten. Given time, I expect that most will eventually be rewritten.

Tom's hardware benchmarks processors for a variety of tasks and applications. It can be a good resource for comparing objective measurement of processor throughput for a particular application.