Osario case update from FWW

[tommyt654]

Listen to Gass talk about how other tablesaw manufacturers are to blame for Osario,s accident, What a jerk,.., http://www.finehomebuilding.com/item...-dollar-finger

[Rich P]

What a bunch of self-serving drivel. Wait until one of his devices fails to activate properly, somebody gets hurt and he get's his "you know what" sued. Then he'll be talking about "user error"! It would all be wonderfully ironic if it was not such a sad commentary on the times we live in.

[germdoc]

With all due respect, I don't see what there is to disagree with in what he's saying. Tablesaws are dangerous products. He has a safety device.

I've said before, it doesn't matter whether he's a jerk or pompous a$$ or not, just if the product works. If it doesn't work, yep, he might be liable for a lawsuit.

Re' self-serving--just like everyone else. Listen to Steve Jobs talk about non-Apple computers or Dyson talk about non-Dyson vacuums, etc., etc. Of course PC-based computers or Eureka vacuums don't usually cut off digits...

[cgallery]

Re' self-serving--just like everyone else. Listen to Steve Jobs talk about non-Apple computers or Dyson talk about non-Dyson vacuums, etc., etc.

Yeah, but I don't like those guys, either.

[Richard in Smithville]

First things asked up here in an industrial accident, " Was the worker trained?" and "Why wasn't the worker properly supervised?"

Whether or not the worker was working in an unsafe manner, the employer is usually held responsible unless proven otherwise. Tools must have CSA approval and if any tool have been found to have been modified or not used in the manufactorers prescribed manner, the employer is held liable.

[Richard in Smithville]

Just another thought; if Ryobi tools have been approved for sale in the US, perhaps the victim should sue the US government for negligance too?

[cabinetman]

First things asked up here in an industrial accident, " Was the worker trained?" and "Why wasn't the worker properly supervised?"

Whether or not the worker was working in an unsafe manner, the employer is usually held responsible unless proven otherwise. Tools must have CSA approval and if any tool have been found to have been modified or not used in the manufactorers prescribed manner, the employer is held liable.

Do I think Gass is a jerk? No I don't. Why is there a need for a safety device? Because people continue to stick their fingers into the blade.

Employers here are responsible for an employee accident. The attitude for a safety device might be different if one had to drive someone to the ER with their hand in one bloody towel, and their fingers in another.
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[phi1l]

I have run across a couple of very interesting related web pages.

This one summarizing table saw accident statistics

And, this article analyzing the statistics

First of all this survey falls into the "non-scientific", because it is a voluntary & self-reporting. But there were several thing several things that jumped out at me.

First I was surprised at how few serious injuries were related to kickback. but that may be that dead people can't file accident reports. Also this analysis doesn't include near misses. Or it could be that kickback gets over hyped due to the potentially fatal result kickback incidents.

Second, 78% occurred when the Blade guard wasn't in place, & 91% occurred when there was no anti-kickback device installed.

Third, of those reported 88% of injuries were minor, and only 2 of 262 involved an amputation. While one is too many, this dashes my image of detached digits flying out of workshops around the country.

Fourth, most of these accidents are being reported by older guys who, by virtue of having survived so long, should really know better.

Finally, in over 99% the injuries were reported to be preventable. The accidents were attributed to "arrogance," "inattentiveness," "complacency" and most frequently their own "stupidity".

This report, while really not funny, does bring up images of the 3 Stooges:

"I was ripping a narrow piece of pine about two feet long, without a push stick. As the wood was going through the blade I was watching the far end to keep it against the fence and ran my thumb into the blade, cutting Ľ-inch off the tip. When I felt the blade hit my finger I jerked my hand out, clutched it with my other hand and started to jump up and down just as the saw fired the wood my way, striking me squarely in the privates."


So this gives me a new perspective on TS accidents. in over 99% of the cases TS accidents shouldn't happen, SawStop Tech. should not be necessary. All we need is a device that will require the brain to be engaged before the switch is turned on.

So until we have a device that can do that, or massive & continuous safety education, intervention technology is going to be the only way to prevent these accidents. But the SawStop only addresses about 1/3 of the incidents, it does nothing for kickbacks.

Maybe we need to have saws with this technology built in. With this thing, you can't get your fingers near the blade. I don't know, I don't see any easy answers here. As long as "safety doesn't sell", I don't see this solvable problem going away either.

[Rich P]

Last year I was looking for a used cabinet saw and ran across a Unisaw in a local branch of a plastics retailer. They were getting rid of the Unisaw in all their branches and replacing them with....SawStop units. They probably justified the expense on reduced insurance premiums. That may make sense for a business but for private parties (like me) trying to legislate this technology into every saw so that some yahoo can retire early on the royalties makes me more than a bit angry.

Before I turn on anything that spins fast and has sharp things associated with it, I take a moment to remind myself that "This thing can really hurt me and I'd better be careful!" I've been lucky to have dodged a few bullets when I was younger and I don't want to try my luck any further.

[cabinetman]

That may make sense for a business but for private parties (like me) trying to legislate this technology into every saw so that some yahoo can retire early on the royalties makes me more than a bit angry.

So, it's not important that he developed a safer saw system to keep you from losing your fingers when you stick them into the blade. I don't have a problem with him making royalties. What's wrong with that? I would do it too. Try to imagine if you will, what he went through in time and money developing the system. Add to that what he spent on the saw and getting it to market.

Operators will continue to stick their fingers in the blade, even with a blade guard. Statistics can be touted all day long. Ask a guy who cut himself up what he thinks, and whether it was the saws' fault.
.

[Rich P]

I think most guys who hurt themselves with a machine would probably admit that they got careless. It's sort of like the "guns don't kill people" line of reasoning. I don't have a problem with anyone making money off of their ideas. What I do have a problem with is having their idea forced on to me by some regulatory bureaucracy in response to a silly lawsuit.

No one has a problem with paying for air bags and I hope I never need them, but if I do I sure as heck don't want it to be because of something stupid that I did.

[Uncle Cracker]

No one has a problem with paying for air bags and I hope I never need them, but if I do I sure as heck don't want it to be because of something stupid that I did.

You mean like sticking your face into the steering wheel?

[LinuxRandal]

Sawstop doesn't use blade stopping tech, like the Whirlwind. Does that mean it is a defective design, since the blade stopping tech of the Whirlwind, COULD potentially stop a blade trigger, when something conductive hit the guard first? (saving the cost of a brake and blade)

[Rich P]

It used to be in the Sunshine State (where I grew up) that a riposte had a point. What is yours? Mine was if I am driving through a downpour out side of Tarpon Springs without my lights and wipers and I run off the road and the bag goes off, it's my fault, not the car's! Am I glad the bag saved me? Sure, but it does not sound like a good way to improve the gene pool. I'm done here. If you want a SawStop, go buy one. It's your money (and maybe your finger).

[phi1l]

Try to imagine if you will, what he went through in time and money developing the system.
.

According to the article he slaved all or 2 weeks & cost him all what ti took to buy a used table saw to come up with the first working prototype.