Fallen marine

[germdoc]

I have already said enough about the case itself, but I cannot understand how it would be helpful for anyone to have 32,000 pages of documents on this case. It boggles the mind.

(And we wonder why legal care is so expensive...)

[phi1l]

What is this really about? A crowd that is constantly seeking public attention. They deliberately picked offensive topic and style and the whole tactics is "how can we get the most people offended and the most publicity"?

I think you almost got it right. This is really not about free speech, it is about free publicity. There are very few loons that would support this group financially, so they have to get their message to as many people as possible at the lowest cost.

The question is does the First amendment not only guarantee the right to be heard, as well as the right to speak? I'm sure that it doesn't guarantee free publicity. I think that at the least, the church received benefit from this remonstration, as did the new media, However the family received no benefit, but was critical to the creation of the publicity, so I think they should be able to receive payment for the services provided, and should be able to ask for payment from both the group & the media, for value received.

[woodturner]

I have already said enough about the case itself, but I cannot understand how it would be helpful for anyone to have 32,000 pages of documents on this case. It boggles the mind.

I suspect the family asked for essentially every document the church had. That could be one reason for the judge's ruling.

One legal tactic is to try to impose impossible but legal demands on one's opponent. The church has little choice but to produce. As one might imagine, it takes some time and effort to copy 32,000 documents.

[woodturner]

I think that at the least, the church received benefit from this remonstration, as did the new media, However the family received no benefit,

I think it is important to keep in mind that the church received this publicity because the family filed the suit. Regardless of whether one agrees with the protest or not, the church would have received no additional publicity had the family not filed the suit or if they had paid their bills. The additional publicity arose because the family did not want to pay for items they ordered. The family hoped to obtain $16,000 of free services, but the judge did not rule in their favor on this issue.

[jackellis]

Without getting into the merits of the lawsuit and the judge's order, here's my opinion:

Phelps et. al. are clearly seeking publicity, irrespective of whether they really believe what they preach. I understand why the Marine's family and many of you are upset. I am too. If Phelps had his way, I'd either be walking around with an armband or be gassed.

The way to defeat this guy and his acolytes is to ignore them, as difficult and painful as it might be. Ignoring them does a lot more damage to them and their cause than giving them the benefit of free publicity. Filing the suite provided them with tons of free publicity. The judge's compensation order provided them with more free publicity.

I was watching the tail end of a TV show (did not catch the name) patterned after the CSI series, only the star is an FBI agent. Apparently the perp was a serial killer who sought to make himself famous. He gets caught and looks forward to becoming a household name on that evening's news. Instead, the FBI imposed a news blackout on grounds that the incident was an instance of terrorism. The publicity-seeking serial killer got no satisfaction.

[Pappy]

The free publicity may help them in some ways, but may hurt them at least one. A lot of veterans are going to be upset by their actions. Some are going to make it a point to track and attend the protests at funerals with the intent of 'counter demonstration'.

[cabinetman]

The free publicity may help them in some ways, but may hurt them at least one. A lot of veterans are going to be upset by their actions. Some are going to make it a point to track and attend the protests at funerals with the intent of 'counter demonstration'.

That's an interesting concept. I vote for that. Don't groups need to apply for a permit to congregate for the purpose of demonstrating? If so, if the reason is hate orientated, just deny the permit.
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[Bruce Cohen]

How much C-4 can one purchase for $16,000???

Bruce

And I'm seriously pissed at the poor excuses for humans

[Richard in Smithville]

I have been looking over the WBC site and find interesting what they say they stand for and what they oppose. Groups in Canada making such mission statements ( even church groups ) would be charged with hate crimes in a flash.

[smorris]

I was listening to the local radio station interviewing an attorney earlier this week about this. He made the observation that if a family member were to attack the 'protesters' he could make a case for an affirmative defense based on fighting words.

When one of our local marines came home for burial the patriot guard showed up and completely drowned out the protesters with their engines. And formed a wall of bodies so the families wouldn't even see them.

[Kavoom]

I have to live with them...

I live in Topeka Kansas. They are out quite often with their nasty little pickets. In particular being a former Marine, it is very frustrating, Once every few years some one takes a drive at them. I don't condone it, but understand those who are frustrated. So, don't imagine we are pleased. To counter them, local charities came up with the idea of having skill based contests where people pay five dollars and guess how long they will stay protesting. The winner gets some and the rest goes to the charity. It's all quite organized. And now people go to the events and cheer them on to stay longer or leave. It may have actually cut down on the number of "protests." This wouldn't work at funerals, I realize and I hope someone figures out how to stop it.

They have always announced when they were going to do things and there is a group of people who make it an organized point to try to give where ever they are going a heads up. I even understand they haven't made it to a couple of places due to things like flat tires etc... We unfortunately like elsewhere have had a couple of attempted laws shot down at the state supreme court level so have had to be creative.

The whole city was pretty happy with the original 5 million the father won. There is no objectivity in the press with them. And for once I agree. We thought punitive amounts would shut down their "church."

But I do have a good story about getting them back locally. This is for real. We do what we can. A person I used to work with (nurse) lived across the street from a church they protested at and her not being any shrinking violet went outside and started yelling at them as they were on the median grass strip in front of her house on Sunday morning. They yell back nastily let me tell you. This was in January a few years ago, like really cold. She said her husband came out trying to calm her down and she went over to the policeman (there is always one close) and he said he was sorry but that was technically public property and he couldn't stop them but wished he could. She said she fumed and then thought to ask the cop if it was OK if she watered her lawn (January remember)... She said he got a semi-confused look on his face and then a big grin and said sure it was her property... So, her husband, a really nice guy who rolls his eyes a lot, watered the lawn and they yelled even more but left... They yelled at the cop and her and everybody including the cop was laughing at them. They have become like a local bad joke and we treat them like that... pariahs but not worth worrying about. People laugh and point and ignore. They dislike that more than anything.

So, we do what we can in Topeka...and suffer also. I am afraid though that they get so little satisfaction locally that that is one of the reasons they go elsewhere. Just so you know...

[cabinetman]

I even understand they haven't made it to a couple of places due to things like flat tires etc... We unfortunately like elsewhere have had a couple of attempted laws shot down at the state supreme court level so have had to be creative.

Flat tires...yeah...that might make them late enough.
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[Richard in Smithville]

So, we do what we can in Topeka...

Is there any law there that says you can't have weekly protests.... say every Sunday at noon outside a particular building?

[woodturner]

More recent article with more details

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_funeral_protests

"Westboro contacted police before its protest, which was conducted in a designated area on public land — 1,000 feet from the church where the Mass was held in Westminster, Md.

The protesters — Phelps and six family members — broke no laws. Snyder knew they were present, but he did not see their signs or hear their statements until he turned on the news at his son's wake. "