Reason,s to not buy a Sawstop

[tommyt654]

I know , Ya,ll thinkin Tommys up on his high horse wavin the Sawstop flag again. Well heres 2 very good reasons why I wouldn,t buy 1 in the near future other than the obvious. I. If the Osario case does inevitably succeed in forcing other manufacturers to install flesh-detection devices in their saws, The cost will be significantly lower than Sawstops as they have better relations with the plants in China and will ultimatly get better/lower cost per unit considerations. Now here,s the other that should be really interesting to see how it turns out. In China their is a move afoot that would have companies who are seen as having an unfair advantage over the competition to hand over their patents in order to level the playing field (Biz week April 6th 2010) should this happen since Sawstop as well as PM.Delta and others have their tools built there, They would have to share their technology to a point to level the playing field. I,d be willing to bet China would force Sawstop to do this because of their involvement against other Chinese companies in the Osario lawsuit. Hence will Sawstop even be in business in a few yrs, Guess will have to wait and see where the sawdust falls.

[Stytooner]

Tommy, for someone that really doesn't have all the facts (only those that were involved in that particular case know what actually occurred in the courtroom), you do have every angle and foreseeable outcome planned for (hypothetically). Some companies in China have been known to steal Patents or designs, but they have no jurisdiction over an American patent. Yet that is. I won't go as far as to say that what you suggest would never happen. Some people do win lotteries.
To use one of your own sentiments, "I think you are way out in left field" with only bunters in the lineup.

[tommyt654]

Lee, Go buy the businessweek I,m referring to and read the article, it has implications far more reaching than just tablesaws. That thought just crossed my mind because of the current tablesaw dilema here in the states.I realize you and Gass being good friends and all probabaly resent any arguements against people who have any diagreements with the technology, I,don,t ,I believe its great technology, but if folks here or elsewhere that might be considering purchasing a Sawstop might want to wait until this all settles to see what is going to happen. He may be out of business in a few yrs and folks might get stuck with a saw they can,t get parts or warranty work done on. Thats a lot of money to have to spend for something that may or may not be around. If folks here don,t want to hear that then they can read another issue in the forum, but I,m inclined to think in this day and age that giving folks the oppertunity to think things out by processing all available options ,even possible future options, leads to the viability of my discussions relating to these tools and issues.

[LinuxRandal]

The problem with the patent/China issue, can be examined, using a HF tool. HF made a miter saw, that was a copy of the much loved Makita. While they may not have the patent issue there, there was repercussions to selling them here. (HF quickly stopped)

If this went into effect, while the companies could make them over there, they would be immediately liable here, when they started selling them.
Also, Gass could say GFY to the Chinese government, and temporarily suspend production, while he moved it to Mexico, South America, etc.

[Stytooner]

That thought just crossed my mind because of the current tablesaw dilema here in the states. I realize you and Gass being good friends and all probabaly resent any arguements against people who have any diagreements with the technology,

I don't know of any more dilemma now than previously on table saws. Research, study, select, save, then have fun carefully.

What you have been posting is just your opinion mainly along with a few facts thrown in and then possible occurrences in the future. That is fine, though sometimes misleading.

The second sentence above tells me for a fact that you misconstrue what you read and read into something what you like or want. I never claimed to be friends with Steve. I email lots of guys all the time. Over 100 emails every week. I don't consider them particularly friends but some are of course. At best, he would be considered a business contact. Not a buddy, friend, pal or any other thing you might want to imply. The trade we did of each others guards was to both see how they could be made better and to do a head to head test. The results of the first test is on Woodnet somewhere.

As I have said before, I will withhold any judgement until more facts are in. Speculating on the future is for folks who do that for a living. I know we all do to some degree, but something this size, I'll leave to the pros.

[SARGE..g-47]

The Sawstop Industrial is made by Geetech in Taiwan which ain't China. The new PCS is made in China.. I was fortunate to get to go to dinner with the owner of the Geetech plant in China at IWF in 2007.. Nice guy.. drinks too much wine! ha.. ha...

[Kavoom]

China stuff

I consulted with a company making rapid diagnostic tests. They have patented tech. At almost all trade shows outside of China you will see groups of them wandering around taking pictures and asking lots of questions. And if you ask anyone running marketing, the common theme is watch the samples. They disappear...

They will simply take them back and reverse engineer things and sell them. If you sue, it takes years, if you win, the shell of the company left has nothing to pay, and the owners will have already set up a factory somewhere else to start the whole process all over again. This is a gross over simplification and I am not really picking on the Chinese as others do it also, but they have it down to a science regarding how to do it.

But, when you get final product and it looks very familiar, you don't get the quality management, metallurgy, or plastics, tech and R&D backed products where there are often many unseen lessons learned and fixed in ways not readily copied...

So, you takes your chances. The simpler the tech or more modular (where putting things together is core to manufacturing a product), the more reliable the product.

A perfect example is Kipor generators. Honda did a sublicense with a Chinese company all up front with limitations on the sale of products outside of western countries. So, in that case Honda gave away the secrets. Kipor went on a 10 year run of selling the things all over and Honda has been chasing them down ever since. They have to watch ebay and will go and take the generators and destroy them when they can find them and act fast enough. Now the tech is out there and being copied under other names cheaper and cheaper but looking quite like Honda's.

They weren't Honda's, but pretty close and half the price. It apparently has been like a game of whack a mole. And even with Honda winning, they have already lost.

Now, that's a rich international corporation. What if you come up with a good idea like a "Shark Stop." You just might see it even when you didn't make it.