And So it begin,s

[tommyt654]

I knew after all the reading about the Sawstops technological advantages + the fact the owners are patent attorneys it would only be a matter of time, How much you wanna bet who the expert witness was!,http://www.boston.com/business/artic...stPop_Emailed5, Well I did a little more searching around and Gass was an expert witness for the plaintiff, I ,ll never buy a Sawstop because of his involvment in what I consider a frivolous lawsuit aimed at ensuring he gets what he couldn,t get from the CPSC. What a jerk, I say we all ban together and boycott his saws and his Co. I wouldn,t be surprised to find out later that the plaintiff was probably put up to this by Gass himself

[Pappy]

I am not sure of the timeline, but wasn't the Saw Stop tecnology introduced after the production end of the BT3100? If this guy was so concerned with the safety of the saw he was using, why didn't he shell out the bucks for a Saw Stop rather than buying a low end home owner / hobbyist saw?

Gass? He is in it for anything that will increase his own account balance.

[tommyt654]

Well FWIW, I just sent an e-mail to Sawstops website indicating I am boycotting their tools because of Gass,s involvment in this matter. Its insulting to me as a woodworker who has safely used tablesaws for over 35 yrs and yet(knock on wood or my head) to have had an accident on a tablesaw. Its entirely operator negligence and he,s only their as Pappy said to promote his own ignorance as to who we as a community are. I hope others here will join me in sending our opinions of where we stand. I hope that one day a Sawstop unit fails and he gets sued by someone who was ,mislead by his co. into thinking it was completely safe and foolproof and they had to not be careful when using a powerful tool of this sort.

[cabinetman]

I could care less as to who invented it or what his intentions were/are. The saw provides a safety factor...period. Are we to assume that the manufacturers of other table saws don't have making money on their minds.

I will grant the theory that accidents are most likely operator error. Ask those that have lost fingers on their table saw, if they would have preferred to have a Saw Stop.
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[phi1l]

Wouldn't the plaintiff have had to remove or circumvent the the guard that came with the saw, for him to have cut that many fingers? I wouldn't be surprised to see that verdict gets thrown out on appeal.

[LinuxRandal]

We have discussed here, another inventor, with a similar device, BUT it was/is in the guard (was he interviewed?). I wasn't there, so I don't know the discussion/arguments of the trial. But I do remember long ago reading that this was part of the tablesaw manufacturers arguments AGAINST incorporating the technology. If they did, if not in all saws, they would have a problem. If not, they would ALSO have a problem since Joe Schmoo, made it in his basement.

Now as stated, we don't know if the operator/plaintiff used push sticks, guards, read the manual, or looked for other options like guided circular saw systems. Also in some states, with releases from insurance companies, the judgement, will not be anywhere close (to the medical) and will be eaten up by lawyer fee's and medical insurance reimbursement.

I have a friend whose grandfather, cut off several of his fingers at 95 years old on the tablesaw. I provided his grandson with all the information about the Sawstop, as they could afford it with pocket change. He still kinda piddles at 99, but doesn't use his "old" tablesaw as much, as he realized he doesn't have the reaction time anymore. He also has his drivers license, just for his knowledge that he is capable and could do it, but he doesn't drive anymore. I know my limitations, and with my odd hours, I moved to a guided circular saw system, as I feel much safer, and it has fulfilled my needs.

[radhak]

A very objective article, challenging the soundness of the decision on this case here : Why a Safer Table Saw May Not Be Good for America

He makes a very clear case for differentiating between 'defective' and 'lacking a feature'. After all, not every car today has ABS!

Be sure to read the linked article within - SawStop wants to legislate itself into millions : that mentions a lawsuit for a mitre-saw! And also that kickbacks cause far more injuries than the blade itself - how is adding $200 to the cost justified?

I love his punch line : McDonalds Defective Hot Coffee!

[tommyt654]

I could care less as to who invented it or what his intentions were/are. The saw provides a safety factor...period. Are we to assume that the manufacturers of other table saws don't have making money on their minds.

I will grant the theory that accidents are most likely operator error. Ask those that have lost fingers on their table saw, if they would have preferred to have a Saw Stop.
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A push stick provides the same safety factor.

[cabinetman]

A push stick provides the same safety factor.

It doesn't seem that "safety" is the issue of your OP. For all the individuals who continue to stick their fingers into a running blade for whatever reason, should have a Saw Stop.

Push sticks can be dangerous on their own. If stuck into the blade like fingers, can get ripped from the hand, get caught and become a projectile or fragment into high speed pieces, and able to do some damage all on its own.
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[crokett]

I think the Sawstop is great technology. It prevents injuries, there is no denying it. Would I run out and get a SawStop saw? No. I am satisfied that the push sticks, featherboards, etc I have are a good enough safety factor. Do I want to pay an extra 50 or 100 bucks to have it on my saw? Maybe, but I want that to be my choice, not because the government or some court somewhere decided it must be so.

[gjat]

I think it's disgusting pandering to society's lack of self responsiblity and is an attempt of using legislation to force product marketing and is the antithesis of the concept of 'Free Market'.
This lawsuit effectively is removing ALL responsiblity of the operator in an inherently dangerous device all for the benefit of ONE specific technology.

Does saw-stop prevent kick-back? Is saw stop the only method available? Would legislatining in saw-stop as mandatory on all saw products encourage or discourage the development of other technologies? How many products are there that prevent kick-back? How about developing a totally enclosed system (like a surface planer) where you couldn't even touch the blade or have kick-back? So what if that makes the cheapest saw $1,500? Maybe table saws should be outlawed for a guided circular saw system?

SawStop was developed and is marketed in a free-market system as an optional added safety feature. The consumer can make the choice between cost and benefit just as we are free to make the cost/benefit choice between life insurance, disability insurance, comprehensive auto insurance, and whether we want to drive a Volvo or a Mini-Cooper.

[tommyt654]

Heres what I see in our future,All homeowners ins. policys going thru the roof if you fail to have a Sawstop, Liability Ins for businesses that utilize this type of equipment also skyrocketting, In the long run we all lose as prices for any manufactured goods utilizing a saw for production will get passed on to us the consumer as Gass profits from his invention. Yes its a great idea and like Crockett I don,t want our gov,t shoving it down my throat for safetys sake, but there has to be a line drawn in the sand and we as individuals must make it clear that it is our choice not Gass,s obvious sour grapes attitude that he did not make the billions he expects from his invention thats at stake here. Cabinetman has a good point as well but **** lets face it, it was inevitably operator misuse and negligence on his part that caused the accident,not the manufacturers.Gass is just like the rest of the bottom feeders in this case ,which will eventually be dismissed I hope.

[Stytooner]

http://www.raygirling.com/ryobi/ryobi.htm#specrules

[Pappy]

I could care less as to who invented it or what his intentions were/are. The saw provides a safety factor...period. Are we to assume that the manufacturers of other table saws don't have making money on their minds.
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I don't think anyone will argue the benefits of SawStop technology, or that all manufacturers are in business to make money.

My point is that Mr Gass tried to sell his device to saw manufacturers and, after being rejected for various reasons (production/retooling costs, license fees), lobbied the CPSC to have his device mandated. After that he introduced a line of saws of his own that were apparently well received. Now, it seems to me, he is not satisfied with his share of the market place and is using the courts to further his agenda by providing 'expert testimony' in injury lawsuits. I doubt that, as stated in the OP, that he is behind the filing of the suit. I would not, however, be surprised to find his staff was researching cases in which he could 'volunteer' to be an expert witness.

Now as stated, we don't know if the operator/plaintiff used push sticks, guards, read the manual, or looked for other options like guided circular saw systems.

Other question come to mind as to how the accident occured. As the plaintiff was injured working on a project installing flooring. When the incident occured, was he ripping flooring or cross cutting a piece?

If the latter, was the cut being done freehand or with the miter guage? Was the fence positioned out of the way or being used during the cut?


A couple of years before his death my FIL lost part of his left middle finger on his table saw. He was not a novice by any stretch of the word and would readily admit the accident was the result a dumb action on his part. I doubt the idea of suing Grizzly ever crossed his mind. He may have ceremoniously either shook his fist, or flipped them off, at them several times after the accident. With the missing didgit, you couldn't tell what his intended gesture was!

[Brian G]

By Pappy

If the latter, was the cut being done freehand or with the miter guage? Was the fence positioned out of the way or being used during the cut?

I wondered that, too. I've seen several times on home improvement shows somebody ripping free hand a scribed section of flooring. Once was the "expert" named Bucky on Hometime, but I can't recall the names of the shows for the others. I just remember howling out loud about how dangerous it was, and if I was the manufacturer of the saw the show was using I'd make sure to point out the danger for fear of a lawsuit.