Medical power of attorney

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  • Ed62
    The Full Monte
    • Oct 2006
    • 6021
    • NW Indiana
    • BT3K

    #1

    Medical power of attorney

    If you haven't given someone else medical power of attorney, in the event that you are unable to make medical decisions for yourself, you might want to consider doing that.

    There is now a problem concerning a woman who was at one time, the mother in law of one of my sons. She has been a mental patient for many years, and is now facing the end of life. A distant relative of hers claims to have power of attorney, and is calling the shots. The patient has two daughters, and their call would be much different from how the other woman is handling the situation. There is a question as to whether or not the patient had the ability to give the power of attorney to anyone at all. It's quite possible this will wind up in the courts, and money is not a motive because she has nothing.

    So if you want your wishes to be carried out, in case you cannot make medical decisions for yourself, pick someone you trust will carry out your wishes, and give them power of attorney for medical reasons. My wife and I did that several years ago.

    Ed
    Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

    For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/
  • RAFlorida
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2008
    • 1179
    • Green Swamp in Central Florida. Gator property!
    • Ryobi BT3000

    #2
    Thanks Ed for posting something

    that many don't pay any attention to untill too late. A number of years ago I put together a living will with that clause in it, should I become vegatative. Left nothing to quess. Hopefully the woman you mentioned will not have to suffer because of the question of power of attorneyship. Thanks again for sharing.

    Comment

    • crokett
      The Full Monte
      • Jan 2003
      • 10627
      • Mebane, NC, USA.
      • Ryobi BT3000

      #3
      I would think that unless the relative has documents proving this, then the courts would come down on the side of the immediate family.
      David

      The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment.

      Comment

      • Rich P
        Established Member
        • Apr 2003
        • 390
        • Foresthill, CA, USA.
        • Powermatic 66 (1966 vintage)

        #4
        Here in California the document is called a "Durable Power of Attorney for Healthcare". All you need to do is find a template on the web, print it out, check the boxes you want, fill in the names and get two witnesses. Give a copy to some folks close to you and if you get admitted to a medical facility be sure the admission record notes the fact that you have one and be sure to give the admissions folks a copy. Please note that this is not a POA for finances, that is a completely different document. They don' expire, so you only need to worry if the people you have designated to make decisions change or your choices about care change.

        You can still get a POA for healthcare after admission to a licensed facility, it just requires a formal notarization.
        Don't ever ask a barber if you need a haircut.

        Comment

        • Uncle Cracker
          The Full Monte
          • May 2007
          • 7091
          • Sunshine State
          • BT3000

          #5
          I found out first-hand once upon a time that there are all types of "living wills", "powers of attorney", "medical advance directives", and the like... And all types of wordings, and countless variables from state to state about how things get handled regarding next-of-kin, precession/succession, party of sound mind, etc.

          The simplest and best advice I can give you is to get a lawyer to handle these things... It's too important for you to dwell on the advice of your cousin's sister in law, a coworker, or some online DIY legal service. There is very little involved to simply get the right answers, so the legal fees will be minor compared to the trouble one can get into if it's not done right.

          Comment

          • cabinetman
            Gone but not Forgotten RIP
            • Jun 2006
            • 15216
            • So. Florida
            • Delta

            #6
            Originally posted by Uncle Cracker

            The simplest and best advice I can give you is to get a lawyer to handle these things... It's too important for you to dwell on the advice of your cousin's sister in law, a coworker, or some online DIY legal service. There is very little involved to simply get the right answers, so the legal fees will be minor compared to the trouble one can get into if it's not done right.

            I agree. Laws and what's legal may vary from state to state. Not waiting until it's too late makes sense.
            .

            Comment

            • germdoc
              Veteran Member
              • Nov 2003
              • 3567
              • Omaha, NE
              • BT3000--the gray ghost

              #7
              You should try to cover all the bases with a living will, DPOA, and a document with your health care provider (we call it a POLST form here--physician orders for life-sustaining treatment). And talk it over with your family so everyone is in agreement.

              Sometimes things can get screwed up, particularly if there is a family member who doesn't want to follow the plan, but most of the time preparation will pay off and ensure that your wishes are followed.
              Jeff


              “Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of whom they know nothing”--Voltaire

              Comment

              • JimD
                Veteran Member
                • Feb 2003
                • 4187
                • Lexington, SC.

                #8
                My 52 year old healthy wife had a bad stroke at Christmas time in 2008. We both had no wills and no durable health care power of attorney. I now have both. I also gave the kids legal power of attorney so they could spend my money to bury me if necessary. It cost a few hundred dollars to get all this drafted but was very simple.

                I mentioned my wife to give an example of how it matters. Jan lost all higher level brain function (at least that can be detected) early on Christmas morning. There is no way to know but I think that is when her soul went to heaven. The only medical option they gave us at that point was the removal of her entire brain so that she could live in a vegitative state on her brain stem. By not doing this, it guaranteed she would die. I knew what Jan's choice would be so it was a very hard situation but not a hard decision. Our two kids are adults, however. Fortunately we all agreed but if one of us had not, I would have had to get an attorney to prevent the operation. Jan was declaired medically dead on the 27th. If she had the agreement I now have, she would probably have died on the 25th because she would not have gone back on the respirator. I explained all this to my kids. None of us were ready for Jan's death and I am not upset I agreed for her to go back on the respirator, I am just commenting on how things worked for us.

                Once you have the health care power of attorney, it is a good idea to give a copy to your primary care physician. I had hernia surgery in December and I brought a copy to the hospital with me. Not much chance of it being necessary but you never know.

                Jim

                Comment

                • Ed62
                  The Full Monte
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 6021
                  • NW Indiana
                  • BT3K

                  #9
                  Sorry to hear of the loss of your wife, Jim. I had a mild stroke at age 57, and I've always been very healthy. So that shows that even if you're relatively young and healthy, you just never know how quickly things can change.

                  Ed
                  Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

                  For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

                  Comment

                  • Rich P
                    Established Member
                    • Apr 2003
                    • 390
                    • Foresthill, CA, USA.
                    • Powermatic 66 (1966 vintage)

                    #10
                    Jim,

                    Painful recollections. Proves the point that our medical pros are trained to prolong life no matter what the cost. When my first wife was terminal the nurse in the doc's office came to me and said "whatever you do, don't admit her to a hospital". She passed on hospice at home, not on some heroic effort to sustain her. It only takes a brief effort to set all of this in order and (sadly) most of us don't do it. Even so, my mother had a DPOAHC and a DNR (do not resuscitate) and it was only after I talked to the intensive care nurse that I found out that her treatment had amounted to a violation of the order. I spoke with her Dr and she went on "comfort care" and passed an hour later.

                    Goes to show that even with advanced directives you need to be vigilant.

                    Rich
                    Don't ever ask a barber if you need a haircut.

                    Comment

                    • JimD
                      Veteran Member
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 4187
                      • Lexington, SC.

                      #11
                      At least in Jan's case and from what I have heard from others, the doctors will err on the side of prolonging "life". So if you want to have a heart beat as long as they can give you one, you may not need to do the paperwork. I do not think God gives us the ability to know at what point a person's soul leaves their body but I was very comfortable in Jan's case that she would never choose to "live" in a vegitative state. We had discussed it and both are of the opinion that once we cease to be able to function "normally" we would prefer to graduate to heaven.

                      Jan's final doctor was a neuro surgeon. I do not think she was exactly recommending the operation she discussed with us but I was a little surprised my decision was not enough for her. I suspect that part of the problem is our proclivity to sue in our country. The hospital does not want one family member deciding something and then another family member becoming upset and suing. I never checked into it but I am pretty sure a husband can get his decision enforced in this state, however. Easiest thing is just to do the paperwork up front. I did it in significant part because I do not want my kids to have to make these decisions for me. They are legally adults but I don't think it would be fair to ask young adults in their 20s to deal with this.

                      Jim

                      Comment

                      • luteman
                        Established Member
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 145
                        • Northern Michigan
                        • BT3100-1

                        #12
                        This is a very relevant thread for me as I just returned from my local Probate Court where I was made my wife's full legal guardian as she is in end stage Alzheimers. The entire procedure took 30 mins and cost $150. She is now protected and I have peace of mind.

                        Comment

                        • scmhogg
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 1839
                          • Simi Valley, CA, USA.
                          • BT3000

                          #13
                          I'm probably the last person that wants to deprive lawyers of their fees, but. . .

                          This site has forms for each state for $9.99.

                          http://www.ilrg.com/forms/#healthcare
                          I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong. Bertrand Russell

                          Comment

                          • JR
                            The Full Monte
                            • Feb 2004
                            • 5636
                            • Eugene, OR
                            • BT3000

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Rich P
                            Goes to show that even with advanced directives you need to be vigilant.
                            Too true.

                            My mother was diligent about having her wishes known. She had a DNR, which was pretty clear. Her health, having been iffy for a few years, went downhill pretty fast.

                            She was living at an assisted-living facility. She got pretty sick, couldn't take pills or respond normally. The ambulance was called. The responder asked me if I wanted her to sustain my mother during the ride to the hospital.

                            I wasn't prepared for the question. We all now know about situations in which life is sustained by machines and tubes while in intensive care. Most of us are prepared to some degree to deal with that situation, should it arise. But there are many shades of grey between full health and that unfortunate curcumstance.

                            Talking it out with those who may be called upon to act, and doing it while everyone is sober and communicative, is extremely important, IMHO.

                            JR
                            JR

                            Comment

                            • radhak
                              Veteran Member
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 3061
                              • Miramar, FL
                              • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

                              #15
                              A couple of years ago my financial advisor recommended an estate lawyer to us; we paid $300 to write a comprehensive set of documents that covered every thing to do with our will/living will/ etc. He was a very experienced lawyer and spent two hours with us just to walk us thru the scenarios and explain what happens when...

                              Best money I've ever spent - gives me peace of mind as nothing else has!

                              Thanks for the reminder to everybody!
                              It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
                              - Aristotle

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