How would you have graded this simple test?

[LCHIEN]

Having teachers in the family, I think one has to give a teacher grading 30 test papers in between cooking dinner for her family, preparing lesson plans for the next week, and raising children of her own a break. Clearly a heart breaking event for the child, but in the grand scheme of things for the teacher, a moment of minor inattention. If this were a pattern for the teacher, that would be different, but if this were an isolated instance of "unfair" grading for this particular child, I'd give her a pass.

I, too, was taught the hungry alligator, and I still use this mental device to choose the correct symbol.

Slightly off topic, but my daughter is in first grade, still learning to read and write. One of her homework papers had several pictures with three letter blanks below for her to fill out.

One of the pictures was of a drinking vessel usually used for coffee. Is the correct answer C U P or M U G? Both three letter words and both correct. The answer the teacher was looking for was cup, but mug would have been a more accurate description of the picture.

Another picture was a porcine animal from which we get bacon. Is the correct answer P I G, H O G, or S O W? All three letter words and all accurate. Again, teacher was looking for pig.

Yes, Chris one thing i learned from school (Lesson 1) is that the correct answer in the classroom is the one the teacher is looking for. That may not be the right answer in the real world, though. Lesson 2 is that the classroom is not the real world, just don't tell that to the teacher.

[LCHIEN]

i always knew the big end went to the big number.
if you played eine Kleine in the wrong key it might not be so bad if you were solo but if you were in an ensemble (quartet, trio, string group etc) it would be a disaster.

IN college (and granted college is a long way from elementary) the professor explained to me, bridges fall, planes crash. Wrong for whatever reason doesn't bring those lives back. (e.g. there was no partial credit for a good intention.)

So finally, for this to have been such a big deal as to bring it up after all these years it surely made an impression on you. I think now you know which > and < to use. You have surely learned the lesson well and I congratulate your teacher for marking it so strongly in your mind that you will never ever make that mistake again even if it were traumatic at the time.

[cgallery]

How many of you that think this grade is okay would have no problem with being pulled over for doing 31 in a 30-MPH zone.

<= 30 is right, 31 is wrong. Right?

[docrowan]

Having teachers in the family, I think one has to give a teacher grading 30 test papers in between cooking dinner for her family, preparing lesson plans for the next week, and raising children of her own a break. Clearly a heart breaking event for the child, but in the grand scheme of things for the teacher, a moment of minor inattention. If this were a pattern for the teacher, that would be different, but if this were an isolated instance of "unfair" grading for this particular child, I'd give her a pass.

I, too, was taught the hungry alligator, and I still use this mental device to choose the correct symbol.

Slightly off topic, but my daughter is in first grade, still learning to read and write. One of her homework papers had several pictures with three letter blanks below for her to fill out.

One of the pictures was of a drinking vessel usually used for coffee. Is the correct answer C U P or M U G? Both three letter words and both correct. The answer the teacher was looking for was cup, but mug would have been a more accurate description of the picture.

Another picture was a porcine animal from which we get bacon. Is the correct answer P I G, H O G, or S O W? All three letter words and all accurate. Again, teacher was looking for pig.

[Alex Franke]

If this were not so, how can a test expect the students to use those symbols in their answers and still be a fair test?
[snip]
Was there a percentage-based grading scale on which a score at or below a certain level "earned" a "U"? If so, the grade was appropriate. If it was given to you arbitrarily, then perhaps not. Would you have felt better if it had been an "F"?

Good point about the "fair test" perspective.

I really don't know about how objective or subjective grading was. Total and complete objectivity might have been the rule, for all I know. But it seems to me that at that age, and even with a "black and white" subject like math, there should be a little leeway in grading.

To you last question, I think anything other than a "VG" (even a "see me") would have been shocking.

[Alex Franke]

At some point in time the harshness of reality, the idea that sometimes it hurts to "lose", needs to set in.

This is a good point. The more I think about it, the more I think "what I would do" would depend on the kid. If it was clearly a stupid mistake and the kid was probably ready for a dose or reality, I might have tried to take the edge off the grade with a comment like "Oops! Come see me!" or something like that.

[LarryG]

I'm also curious to know (if there are any early math teachers out there): What is the goal/curriculum at this level?

I'm not a math teacher, indeed not any kind of teacher at all; but it seems to me that if the symbols are brought up at all, teaching their correct usage is one of their goals, part of the curriculum. If this were not so, how can a test expect the students to use those symbols in their answers and still be a fair test?

I don't know whether the "U" grade was appropriate. Was there a percentage-based grading scale on which a score at or below a certain level "earned" a "U"? If so, the grade was appropriate. If it was given to you arbitrarily, then perhaps not. Would you have felt better if it had been an "F"? (Not a rhetorical question ... I really can't tell.)

One some level, I do understand your POV. I don't agree with it, but I do understand it. However, the farthest I can go toward your position would be to say that perhaps the teacher might have taken you aside and said, "Alex, your grade on this test is a 'U' and the reason is because ... [explanation here ] ... but because you DID use the symbols incorrectly, you're still getting a 'U'."

[Alex Franke]

Beware sometimes I can be a bit blunt:
Maybe it should have gotten an A for participation points and gone on to make the same mistakes for the rest of your schooling because you shouldn't feel bad over something as small as math test. At some point in time the harshness of reality, the idea that sometimes it hurts to "lose", needs to set in. Maybe the fact that you did really badly on this test modivated you to do better. You should thank that teacher for not coddling you.

Okay, let me try to reframe this: Can we all pretend that I didn't say it was me who took this test? And can we pretend that I didn't personalize it by saying how it made me feel at the time?

I'll put my cards on the table: I think this now anonymous student should have gotten a "see me" (which would likely have had the same impact) and the grade should have been taken down as an "A" (for Average -- remember this is a VG, G, A, ?, U scale) because the student clearly understood the concept, but clearly did not understand the symbolism.

We have a few votes for "it's fine the way it's graded" and a couple of votes for "I would have done it differently". All votes are perfectly valid and respected, and none of them would even begin to hurt the feelings of this former student, who is certainly a big boy by now. :lol:

[Black wallnut]

Interesting topic to say the least. Alex I see your side of this. I also see that you were given a correct grade. Perhaps this is why they use S and U for lower grades. You failed the test in that you did not connect the concept of the symbols to what they represented. True story: I was never tought that the open end went towards the bigger number; that was something that I figgured out myself. For years I was confused by less than and greater than because like you I was not always sure which symbol was which. It was only after I figgured out that the open end pointed towards the larger number that I started getting the question right. I also, because of my fathers profession, attended three different grade schools and one of those twice.

[Tom Slick]

Beware sometimes I can be a bit blunt:
Maybe it should have gotten an A for participation points and gone on to make the same mistakes for the rest of your schooling because you shouldn't feel bad over something as small as math test. At some point in time the harshness of reality, the idea that sometimes it hurts to "lose", needs to set in. Maybe the fact that you did really badly on this test modivated you to do better. You should thank that teacher for not coddling you.

[Alex Franke]

It is obvious that you really, really want to hear that this teacher was hard-hearted and unreasonable. You will not hear that from me.

No, you have this wrong. Do I believe that? Yes. Do I want to hear that from everyone else? No, of course not.

The reason I posted it is to start a conversation on how a child should be graded on a new math concept when he has the mechanics correct but the symbolism incorrect. I personally don't see this as a black and white issue, which is why I think it's interesting to talk about. I'm also curious to know (if there are any early math teachers out there): What is the goal/curriculum at this level?

You obviously see it as black and white. You've made that perfectly clear, and I don't expect you to change your mind or try to make me feel good by telling me that the teacher was evil. :lol:

[Shep]

I was a child of the 80's so my teacher used the packman analogy. Pacman would always eat the larger number. She would even draw a circle around the > sign to make the pacman complete.

[cgallery]

Wow, we have a lot of tough graders here.

Once I noticed the pattern I would have provided a little more instruction and given you a chance to fix it.

I probably would have provided a nominal mark-down (maybe a couple of points) rather than let you earn a 100% on the work.

[dkerfoot]

Okay, so it sounds like you would have given the music student an "F" too.

I don't see how the Lincoln/Oswald example fits in with the point I was trying to make about concept and symbolism, so no, I wouldn't see a reason to argue that case.

I completely understand the "why it matters in real life" part, but I don't necessarily think that's the goal when you're introducing a new mathematical concept to a child. It seems to me that you should get the mechanics and concepts down first, then maybe talk about how awful it would be to get it wrong out in the real world.

I didn't engage the musical question because I see no relevancy to the math question. But the answer would be "Was playing it in the correct key one of the learning objectives?"

Not having access to the curriculum, I can't say for certain, but it seems reasonable to conclude that a key objective was: "Properly identify and use the symbols for greater than, less than and equals." You did not do this.

It is obvious that you really, really want to hear that this teacher was hard-hearted and unreasonable. You will not hear that from me. Quite honestly, if I found a teacher had given a passing grade to one of my children for the answers you provided, I would be very angry.

Wrong is wrong.

And that's all I have to say about that...

[Alex Franke]

DO you remember why you had all the answer the opposite of right?

Yes, because I beat myself up over it -- "stupid, stupid mistake!". I was probably thinking "greater than" as I was writing the "less than" symbol.

Yes. Exactly. Which is why your grade was fair. You were being tested on two things: did you understand the relative values of the various numbers; did you understand the meaning of the three relationship symbols? Yes to the first; No to the second. The fact it was a simple error of reversal doesn't make it any less wrong.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that those answers were not wrong -- or even "less wrong than normal," or "almost right." They were clearly wrong. I'm arguing that the grade "U" is not appropriate in this case.

Or consider this ... suppose this had been a True/False test, and you answered all the true questions False and all the false questions True. Again, would you make the same argument -- that you understood the concept, but you got your answers reversed?

Almost certainly. Especially if I was so consistently wrong. The concept of how to tell the difference between one type of answer and the other would be clear. But the concept that the "T" means true and "F" means false, obviously not clear at all.