Is This Legal?

[cabinetman]

Thumbing through the classifieds for "homes for sale/rent" (always looking for an investment), was an ad for a mobile home rental that stated "no convicted felons". Is that a violation of their rights, or did they lose that right being convicted of a felony?
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[Uncle Cracker]

I don't think this is a Fair Housing Act scenario. Property owners can deny housing on the basis of credit history, and to take steps to insure that criminal acts are not committed on their property. A convicted felon could certainly be considered a risk in either category. I also believe that convicted felons in some cases are prevented from entering into legal contracts, and a lease is a contract. A property owner might also find that insurance was more difficult or more expensive to obtain if it were disclosed to the insurer that the renter was a convicted felon.

I doubt the landlord would have any legal entanglements to deal if his requirements are made clear up front. However, removal of an existing tenant on these grounds might be much more difficult, unless it was proven that a subsequent crime was committed on his property.

This is not the same as denying a renter on the basis of race, religion, or nationality.

[Pappy]

Both my sons have convictions. One was drug related, served his time, has been been clean for several years, and is now married and settled down. The other was an act of drunken stupidity (vandalism) that should have been a misdemeaner. The DA was running for County Judge and blew it out of porportion for political gain.

Both have had problems getting housing, decent jobs, and other things like govt assistance that are afforded to others, even those that are in the country illegally.

It is a legal form of discrimination.

[pelligrini]

It is a legal form of discrimination.

Yep, I do agree that it is a form of discrimination.

We're currently working on a zoning change on some higher end apartments and this came up at a city council meeting while they were asking about security for the project. It left a very bad taste in my brain.

I can see where disclosure might be warranted in some cases, like on some jobs, but to outright deny anything because of any conviction is wrong.

[tommyt654]

Who do they think they are going to get to live in a trailer anyways, C,mon people in this country need to be realistic. And with regards to the Felons in this country those archaic laws passed by a long forgotten generation should be changed to reflect the more current social times rather than the dark ages of the past outdated beliefs of some religious fanatics or self serving venues of past politicians

[crokett]

Semi-serious question but isn't it a bit redundant to call someone a 'convicted felon'? Are there felons out there that haven't been convicted? Kinda like a hot water heater or putting toast in a toaster?

In answer to Cabman's question, I think the law's view is that unless they are already prohibited from doing so (race, religion, etc) a property owner can exclude pretty much anybody they want from renting.

[BigguyZ]

As a landlord, I'll be the bad guy and say that I don't have a problem with someone not wanting a felon in their place. I agree that there are individuals who will be excluded that bcould be great tenants, but if there's a large enough population out there, why take the chance? Especially with as many tenant right issues that are weighted in the tenant's favor, it's important as a landlord to do the best you can to get good tenants up front. Because after they're in- it can be incredibly difficult to get them out.

However, I will state that I'm not sure if this specifically violates the fair housing act. I've never made such a statement to that fact myself.

[herb fellows]

This is the NIMBY syndrome. Most people want to be fair, as long as they are being fair in THE OTHER GUY'S BACK YARD.

If this is legal (and I have my doubts about that), and everybody decides to invoke it, then what? Do you want homeless felons around your neighborhood? How does that work? Not very well, I'm afraid.
As far as 'property owners can .... take steps to insure that criminal acts are not committed on their property', I don't think you can preemptively decide that. Taken to it's extreme, you could say you want to examine every tenant to make sure he/she is healthy, because you don't want sick or dying people living in your house. Sometimes common sense has to prevail over our wants and wishes.

[Uncle Cracker]

As far as 'property owners can .... take steps to insure that criminal acts are not committed on their property', I don't think you can preemptively decide that.

Disagree. In my neck of the woods, if you own a house that is found to be a "crack house", the county can take it from you and bulldoze it, whether you as the property owner were involved at all. And if you receive rent that is drawn from illegally obtained money, such as prostitution, then you can be judged as benefiting from criminal activity. I'd call that something to be concerned about. You cannot take it into your own hands to enforce the law on your own property, but you dang well ought to be able to decide what kind of risks you want to take, based on the backgrounds of those you would rent to.

[Kristofor]

This is the NIMBY syndrome. Most people want to be fair, as long as they are being fair in THE OTHER GUY'S BACK YARD.

Nah, I think it's a NIABY (Not in Anyone's Back Yard) deal, because there is simply too much liability. Keep in mind this is for renting, not purchasing.

If you own a 4-plex and agree to rent to a violent fellon. Six months later he kills the gal living in the next unit over. Do you think it's a 99% chance or a 100% chance that the next of kin will be suing you for allowing a violent criminal to live next to their daughter when you knew, or should have known that he had a history of attacking others.

Okay, so let's rule out violent fellons. Surely the masses of people who have served time for drug offences shouldn't have these rules applied to them? Well, again you decide to rent to mister ex-Meth head. Except it turns out that he's not so much of an ex-user, as having moved up to a producer. His chemistry set goes boom destroying the units and killing 3, again you should have known better.

Okay, so let's rule out violent, and drug fellons. Okay, so you agree to rent to Bob who ripped off his company with some shady accounting. A year later your other tenants notice that the have had their identities stolen and lots of bogus charges have been showing up on their accounts. Gee, Bob was stealing their mail to steal their identities, again Mr. Landlord shouldn't you have known this was a likely outcome, etc, etc, etc.

So long as there are "better" candidates this is why you see lots of folks turning down fellons...

[ragswl4]

Me thinks that most would agree that renting to a convicted felon is OK as long as its not their property that is being rented to that convicted felon. It's the not in my backyard syndrome. There is more to being punished for a crime besides just doing the time in prison. It follows you forever. Maybe not fair, but that's the reality.

[vaking]

I am not a lawyer but in my opinion:
Discriminating based on religion, race, sex, age is subject to some laws and may be illegal. Still discriminating based on those items is not always illegal. Technically it is illegal to discriminate for public organizations or those that benefit from government contracts. A small landlord (a guy who only owns small number of properties) can probably discriminate against race and get away with it. Any landlord can reject a potential tenant for insufficient credit or employment history even though that may often amount to age discrimination. I am certain any landlord can reject a tenant based on criminal record.

[BigguyZ]

I am not a lawyer but in my opinion:
Discriminating based on religion, race, sex, age is subject to some laws and may be illegal. Still discriminating based on those items is not always illegal. Technically it is illegal to discriminate for public organizations or those that benefit from government contracts. A small landlord (a guy who only owns small number of properties) can probably discriminate against race and get away with it. Any landlord can reject a potential tenant for insufficient credit or employment history even though that may often amount to age discrimination. I am certain any landlord can reject a tenant based on criminal record.

Agreed, but I don't think Felons fall under the eqaul protection clause.

[herb fellows]

All valid points, guys. Given that, what is the answer? I still don't want homeless criminals in my neighborhood. Also, there is the issue of "I've paid my debt to society'. Do we want to say that anyone who has a record for whatever will pay for the rest of his life? That hardly seems fair either.

[herb fellows]

Disagree. In my neck of the woods, if you own a house that is found to be a "crack house", the county can take it from you and bulldoze it, whether you as the property owner were involved at all. And if you receive rent that is drawn from illegally obtained money, such as prostitution, then you can be judged as benefiting from criminal activity. I'd call that something to be concerned about. You cannot take it into your own hands to enforce the law on your own property, but you dang well ought to be able to decide what kind of risks you want to take, based on the backgrounds of those you would rent to.

I understand the intent of the law, but the reality could be ridiculous. To lose your property because someone you rented to used it for illegal purposes without your knowledge is ridiculous. I seriously wonder if this has ever been invoked, do you know? Are there any lawsuits against the government because of this, or are they actually allowing for mitigating circumstances when it occurs?