So What's The Difference?( Saturday morning musings)

[Richard in Smithville]

Yes I know threre's copyright laws and such. Some people have moral opinions on such things. Oh yeah, you need to know what I'm talking about.

Scenerio 1- I buy a woodworking magazine because I love the whozit featured on the cover. I build the whozit and show it off to a woodworking neighbour. He loves it so I lend him the magazine so he can build his own.

Scenerio 2- Same magazine, same whozit. Only this time I show it off on a forum and friend online loves it so I scan the pages and email them so he can build his own.

Why is it that I can do #1 a dozen times with out people having issues but do #2 once and you at least get frowned on(if not worse). How about if I buy back issues at a charity shop or yard sale? Are the sellers in the wrong?





Distribution of plans and such infringes on a magaines copyright. They need to make their money or they would go out of business. Some of the above mentioned are considered as "stealing" but the others are accepted. That's some double standard.

Edit: I thought this would be a good discussion topic and I'm not trying to promote anything that would be illegal or offend any ones moral position.

[cabinetman]

Scenario #2 has a wider influence and widens the exposure to those that will complain. I would think the magazine has somewhat of a dependency on the "trickle down" activity and income from hand-me-down sources.
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[Stytooner]

I think it is the fact that with #2, you are making a copy of it. You can send the original around to all your buddies, since that copy was purchased. Posting online is making a copy of the original. That isn't legal.

[cgallery]

I think the paper copies offer limited distribution possibilities. Paper copies of copies of copies are difficult to read and of limited value.

Once the data is digitized, you can make any number of copies without reducing the underlying quality.

[herb fellows]

Personally, i don't have a problem with scenario #2.
If you posted the article with instructions on a forum or website, that would be a problem.
If you just post pictures of the finished product and respond to a few people who would like to build one, while it may have legal implications, it doesn't have moral ones for me.

[kevincan]

I agree with Stytooner on this. Once you make a copy you have copyright issues. I think you would be fine with giving someone the original magazine with the plan in it.

Kevin

[Tom Slick]

I agree with Stytooner

a couple general points:

#2 publicly shows that you are distributing, #1 doesn't. Its hard to get caught at things done "behind closed doors".

People tend to take the moral/ethics high ground more so in forums than in real life.

[L. D. Jeffries]

How about this: A friend buys plans from a mag.. builds the item and then gives you the plans so you can build one. You show it on the forum and someone wants to build it; you copy the plans and send it them. Any problems??

[Stytooner]

Yep. You are making a copy. If you were to send him the originals, that is okay. As long as you haven't saved a copy yourself.
Morally it isn't correct though. The makers and sellers of designs, plans, dvd how to's make their money by quantity. So far he or she may have just lost two sales.
Again very hard for the copyright owner to actually catch this happening and defend a copyright in such cases.
It's more a moral thing.

[leehljp]

How about this: A friend buys plans from a mag.. builds the item and then gives you the plans so you can build one. You show it on the forum and someone wants to build it; you copy the plans and send it them. Any problems??

Yes. The problem is "Copy". Scanned or copied, the point is the original "can" be given away to anyone you want. As Lee wrote, morally it can be a dilemma in giving it away. "Copies" is where the main problem is. A copy is a copy is copy period.

Related to my field of work, music purchased as a single sheet or book but can not be copied legally for duets, trios, small choirs etc. Two or three can sing from one sheet; but it is illegal to make a single copy for someone else to use - or make a copy for self and give the original to someone else.


AS an added note - many individuals with copyrights will allow copies and sometimes give permission for copies if requested and the reason is good - such as a school for underprivileged, orpans or troubled kids. However there is a caveat on even this. Publishers are OFTEN tied into the copyright situation and although the owner/creator gives permission, the publisher can prevent the process legally, unless the creator and publisher have a specific agreement.

[Alex Franke]

Hey, when are you going to send me that copy of the whozit plans you told me about? I've been wanting to build one of those.

I agree with the "copy" comments, but recognize that the copyright law protects the owner's right to distribute as well. I suppose they could argue that lending a magazine to a friend is redistributing, but who's to say you didn't just transfer ownership, and then take ownership back?

But the "making a copy" part seems more black and white to me.

[cgallery]

Okay, then how about these:

(1) A library purchases a book full of plans. Twenty people check the book out (one at a time, of course), and five of them build the same particularly nifty item from a plan in the book.

(2) While waiting for your wife at the mall, you browse the magazine stand at the bookstore. You spy a plan for a nifty router fence and remember enough upon returning home that you duplicate it, maybe getting a couple of measurements different that would have had to be changed for your circumstances anyhow.

(3) You take pictures of #2 and post on the web, and others build the same router fence.

[crokett]

I think the answer is, the neighbor can probably take a look at what you built and if he is any kind of woodworker he could reverse engineer it and build himself a copy. That is much tougher to do from pictures on a website. Showing the magazine to your neighbor is not copying it for him If you copy it for him you lose control of the copy and he can give it to as many people as he likes. This is the same thing that can happen on the web.

[kevincan]

Would it be legal if I were to make a copy of a plan from a magazine if it was only for my own use? In this case I would still possess the magazine but would use the copy while working in the shop.

I am just curious on this one. The only way to get caught is to turn yourself in.

[billwmeyer]

How I think it should be, is that as long as you cite where the article came from, it should be all right. The magazines produce plans and articles to sell the magazines. If you see a plan or article you like, it gives you an interest in the magazine. That interest makes you aware of the magazine, and makes you much more likely to buy the magazine.

I know, that is not how the legalities go, but in this day and age of instant information, I think things are going to have to change.

How about this scenerio, you see the plan and decide to build it. You copy the plan so as not to put wear and tear on your magazine. Illegal? Neighbor takes you copies after you are finished. Illegal?

Bill