Composite Cabling

[jackellis]

We did our electrical walk-through today to determine the placement of lights, wall sockets and switches. We're also having cabling run for data, video and telephone. The electrician recommended a product that combines data and video cable in a single sheath so that only one cable has to be pulled.

If anyone has used or is familiar with this product, I've got a couple of questions about it:

1) How well does 100baseT ethernet work over it?

2) Will it carry hi def video from a cable or satellite box to TVs located away from the receiver?

3) Who makes the good quality stuff and who should we stay away from?

4) Is it worth the extra cost?

5) Are there good reasons to use it or not to use it?

In most cases, we will co-locate audio and hard-wired ethernet ports in bedrooms, etc. so that anyone who wants to plug in a computer that is not equipped with a wireless card can. I also plan on having one wireless subnet for my wife and me to use and another wireless subnet for guests. We'll use cordless phones where we need them except for one hard-wired, old-fashioned touch tone phone that works when the power fails and a fax line in my wife's office that will be wired separately.

[Kristofor]

1) How well does 100baseT ethernet work over it?
If it's CAT5e or CAT6 then 100Mbit or Gigabit will work over it. Unless you have a really big house or crazy zig-zag cable paths you don't need to worry about cable lengths, so just make sure to use quality terminations

2) Will it carry hi def video from a cable or satellite box to TVs located away from the receiver?
Well, that would depend on what's in the combined cable I suppose. When I built my house it was common to see 2x RG6 Coax, 2-4x CAT5e/6, and about half the time fiber (which I'm guessing is rarely used...). There are ways to send HD signals over any of those media but you're not going to find a connection to do that on the back of your TV it would require additional hardware [Edit: you do have a coax connection on the back of the TV which will take an HD signal from an antena. I'm not aware of any devices that output an HD signal over coax to be decoded by the tv like the old channel 3/4 method with SD tv, maybe this is possible?]. If the cable also included an HDMI cable (not sure if field terminations are up to spec, I've never seen them available for DIYers) or conductors for component connections then you could use it for distributing HD from a cable box or receiver but would have more difficulty with long runs than with ethernet.


3) Who makes the good quality stuff and who should we stay away from?
4) Is it worth the extra cost?
No answer there, it's been too long since I looked.

5) Are there good reasons to use it or not to use it?
I suppose that's subjective and depends on cost, who's doing the work and the relative prices of materials.

It does mean you only need to pull one line to each location, but that one line is a much bulkier cable with a larger (but still not huge) turning radius, and which needs larger holes cut to fish it through studs and whatnot.

I think if I was doing it myself I'd run separate cables (you can pull multiple separate cables at the same time too). It would take a bit longer, but be less hassle for me. If you're hiring someone to do it I guess it comes down to whether the cost savings on labor cover the cost increases on material when comparing comparable quality cables.

[rjwaldren]

My question would be the price diff between composite and separate. I've seen some composite structured cabling solutions that were quite expensive. I doubt your looking into anything this extensive but one particular solution used proprietary connections within the wall that could pigtail into multiple configurations including HDMI. I would guess that your contractor is talking about something more mainstream (off the shelf). I haven't personally seen mainstream products that I would trust to push HD over any great distance with out additional hardware.

[LinuxRandal]

I would say price check. I was able to get separate cable a LOT cheaper (though we installed ourselves). This also worked to my advantage as there were a few area's my brother only wanted one or the other (there were other area's we suggested, and he only went with one networking section, in the kids bedrooms. Later regretted).

Combined cable can have a quicker installation time, but it wasn't that hard for us to run separate. (material, verses labor cost).

[Thalermade]

Dealing in the AV world the general answer is - It Depends.

composite cables are a wonderful time and space saver. Especially in a commercial or industrial setting where cable must be pulled through conduit. You need less and smaller conduit.

Having said that, you mentioned a electrician is who recommended the cable. If you have not already checked the electricians qualifications for non-electrical cabling , please do so. If you have not already spoken with or contracted with a quality AV installation company, please do so. Do you know what components are being installed?

The cost comparison is very important. You have to try to balance current technology with potential future changes (and unfortunately that is basically a losing proposition). Is HDMI future proof?

Generally you can't run too much cable.
5 years ago it was recommended to me to run 2 co-ax and 2 cat5 to every room.
12 Years ago (when our house was under construction) a friend recommended running conduit from my attic to my basement - just in case. It was a very good suggestion and paid off well when I put my antenna in my attic to receive the over-the-air HD signals.

Have fun
Russ

[jziegler]

I've never used the bundled cables, I just run separate cables. Either way, make sure that you have CAT5e or CAT6 for the ethernet cable. While CAT5 will work for a 100MBPs network, it will not work for anything faster. 5e is not much more money and 6 is getting more reasonable now. All coax should be RG6, Stay away from anything that is RG59.

Really, perfornance should not be different for a bundled cable if all specs for the standards are met. I couldn't find a spec on a bundle quickly (couldn't find any from Belden, first place I thought of to check).

Also, run CAT5e or CAT6 for all phone cables. Put a regular RJ11 connector on it, but keep the extra wires there. That way you can convert to ethernet at a later date if you need/want to.

Jim

[jackellis]

Thanks for the feedback folks.

I'm satisfied the electrician can pull the cable correctly. He did admit someone else will have to terminate, but that's OK. I can terminate the Cat5 and someone else can deal with the coax.

[stocktr8er]

What I read was that the electrician was running everything. I agree with Russ with checking on their qualifications and to get a second opinion with some that does this for a living.

You need to ask how much difference the electriacian is going to charge you for pulling individual lines vs a composite cable. If labor cost multiplies with each cable, you may be better off going with a better quality single composit cable.

[Mr__Bill]

About the electrician pulling the cable.
Most of the electricians that I have seen on building sites have no problem with kinks in romex. They just twist them out or pull harder. If you do this with a composite or coaxial you have killed it. It must be rolled off of the spool and not pulled from the end and allowed to go loop-de-loop. If the same person who pulls the cable terminates it then there is no blame game if there is a problem.

Whoever pulls the wire make sure it's kept away from any AC. In most areas code calls for at least 4" separation but many do not follow this and many inspectors don't care about Low Voltage wiring and will let the electrician pull it through with the romex in the same holes.

One problem with a composite cable surfaces when something from the outside is routed through it. Be it antenna, telephone or cable co. feed. Lightning will at some point find you through one of these sources and when it does the induced current on the other wires in the bundle will zap all those unprotected Ethernet adapters and routers along with anything else running in there.

Having a real phone that does not require AC power is a good idea. It should be an old one with a real bell inside. The bell will help dissipate spikes and over voltages on the telco line before it damages the fax machine.