25 Years of Apple

[gerti]

Does Apple have anything similar to MSDN where it supplies developers with copies of the OS, all the API info, etc? This is a serious question because I really have no idea.

First off, these days all Apples come with complete Developer tools (IDE, compiler, Interface Builder) and API documentation. It is on an extra CD/DVD and requires installation, but it is free.

Apple has what is called the Apple Developer Connection (ADC). The basic level is free and provides updates to the developer tools and documentation. The next level costs money ($500/year), and provides seed copies of upcoming OS releases, allows you to buy some hardware at a reduced rate, and includes some developer support incidents. Then there is a corporate level, gets you more support incidents, more hardware credits etc.

[430752]

I was an apple guy to sometime in the 90's. My first computer in my life was likely the first common pc ever in the world - the Apple II. Then the Apple IIe and II+, my middle school was the first in the district to get computers, all II+'s. Remember the fun with peeks and pokes. From there it was the Mac 128, the 512, SE, a quadra and finally a performa. Then the OS stayed at OS 8 for like eternity and I sold out to Wintels.

Whenever anyone asks what Apple is about, etc., I say that a wintel machine has the capability to go to 12, but everyone is stuck at 6 and some advance to 8 (not including geeks/gurus/etc.). On the other hand, Apples can only go to 10, but everyone starts at 8 and most can advance to 9 pretty easily, and they always work.

With that said, I still can't bring myself to switch back after I have 2 desktops at home and a laptop all on wintel architecture. That, and I build my own rigs, nothing like the latest and greatest mobo coupled with a twin sli vga setup, trick memory with advanced timings, etc. I'm one step away from going liquid cooling. Last I checked, you couldn't overclock/overvolt the cpu, memory, gpus, southbridge, etc. on a Mac. Of course, it isn't as bullet-proof as a mac, which I'm now starting to lean back towards - that and the most bestest SuperPi score still doesn't do anything for the real world.

[knotley]

I have had two macs since 1995. I bought one in 1995, the second in 2005. The 1995 model continues to work fine and is used as a Word Processor and email machine and for kids. Lots and lots of educational software available for that model (System 7). My 2005 model (10.3.9) works fine and is now almost 4 years old. I still use my 1995 printer with the 2005 model and the 1995 model. I would rather pay 1.5 times as much as a Windows PC and have it last 3 times as long.

Visit www.lowendmac.com for lots of people using old systems and surfing the net quite well with 7+year old machines.

I have had NO, NONE, NOTHING in the way of gremlins with the Mac OS. My life is too short to deal with IRQ settings and the like in the config.sys, etc. files of DOS/Windows. Installing something on a DOS or Windows PC was always a problem - would it work or not?

Pre 1995: Dos machine 1987, Dos machine 1992, Dos/Windows 1994. Three machines in 7 years! Over $6000 spent and they are worthless and useless. Think of the tools I could have bought that would still be working!!
Gates' quote below is true.

Why doesn't Apple get roasted by their users? Several reasons -

6. Users have come to expect backward compatibility only to a certain level;

5. Forward looking attitude/philosophy or tech world view: In line with # 1, the larger base of Macintosh users "as a base group" were more forward thinking and ready for newer technology. Moving forward was not that huge of a deal. New users coming in were quickly indoctrinated on the same.

In the Windows world, this "group" could be seen as the equivelent to tech minded IT people, but IT people usually do NOT look forward to new technology for the masses under them - because "Change" to them means new problems and headaches. Change is good unless you are the one having to cope with the multitudes of minions under you who are trying to circumvent the system. The forward looking versus "slow change" alone creates an attitude how you look at change.

If you don't look forward to change, then when major change comes, so does the roasting. If you expect change and look forward to it, then those things left behind is no big deal.

This "attitude" passes downward to new users! Subconsciously Windows people are indoctrinated one way and Mac users are indoctrinated with another by those that train them.


4. As a whole, Apple (arguably) machines lasted longer and as Apple moved into the future with new hardware/software or OS that was not backward compatible beyond 3 to 4 years, the old machines continued to work just as well and function well with the older software/OS.
. . corporate PC machines were routinely replaced every 2 to 3 years in the mid 90s for different reasons, incompatibility of parts, malfuntions, dying. Mac machines had roughly twice the usable life span. As Apple moved forward, old machines and programs continued to be productive and work just fine.
(Remember, Apple machines were the first to have networking built in as standard, and as a machines were left behind with new OS intros, they still continued to function as well and network in a way that allowed productivity to be shared easily.)

[Rabbit Chasing]: One reason Apple got a bum rap and had poor sales was not because of the inferiority, but because of its durability. Apple sold a new machine to a returning user once every 4 to 6 years; Window/PC sales were based on new machine once every 2 to 3 years, doubling the sales to stay working. (Yes this was documented. LOML had a hissy fit when she/we heard Gates/Grove discuss this very issue in a recorded TV interview in the mid-90s. And so did the interviewer. . i.e. his reaction was - you really expect me to buy a new computer every two years?" Gates and Grove's response: "Yes. Technology is moving that fast.")

3. A misconception: Macs are not "left behind" to the same extent with new OS changes as Vista did. Apple generally supports (officially) backward compatibility for two OS upgrades. Beyond that, when they quit supporting a system, they leave it working well.

2. Third party support in general is easier for old Macs left behind. Mac DOES control the Mac OS and have what is considered a "CLOSED" system. BUT, this allows for third party support to be much easier. MS does not control, meaning that a driver for a card must match different mother boards, other mfg boards etc, therefore a driver becomes a headache to support all of the combinations of other third party boards that it must interact with. A Royal Pain, a huge headache, therefore less support.

In Other Words: CLOSED Systems allow for easier support by third party hardware / software companies of discontinued OS support by Apple.

CLOSED system mentality is Apple's equivalent of "IT over a networked system". Functions the same. Windows is more open, but IT personnel MUST control it like a "closed system" to make things compatible and work well. Sooo, in this sense, the "closed" system allows for third party support of discontinued services much easier, only it is built into the architecture and is therefore "predictable - easier". No problems when Apple moves on.

Attitude/philosophy/tech world view.

1. (Edited in) Probably the most relevant reason MS gets roasted: With Windows having roughly 85/90% of installed base users, and Apple with roughly 10% installed base users (this is not sales, but installed base users) 85 /90 people sure make more noise about it than 10 do!

[gsmittle]

Whenever anyone asks what Apple is about, etc., I say that a wintel machine has the capability to go to 12, but everyone is stuck at 6 and some advance to 8 (not including geeks/gurus/etc.). On the other hand, Apples can only go to 10, but everyone starts at 8 and most can advance to 9 pretty easily, and they always work.

My Mac goes to 11.

I think this discussion speaks worlds about the community we've built here. On some other boards, the discussion would have degenerated to not-very-original flame wars by now. Here, we all speak our piece, and everybody listens. We don't agree, but that's a good thing.

As I explain it to the snot-nosed teenage boys who sniff at my vintage Mac G3 on my school desktop, comparing it to their latest souped up/built from scratch/mega-gaming machine: All of us use a hammer once in a while. Which one you use is a matter of personal preference. Some of up use hammers with comfortable wooden handles, some use fiberglass handles, and some use those awful steel-handled cheapies with the rubber that tears your skin off. Myself, I prefer to use my hammer than apply band-aids.

Back when I was in Corporate America and used a WinBox all day long, at the end of the day I felt like I had been in a battle. When I use my Mac all day, I feel like I got some stuff done without the wrestling match. For me, it just works when I need it, every time I need it.

My first Mac was a Mac Plus, bought in 1986 with an external 800k drive and an ImageWriter II dot-matrix printer. Seven years later I added a whopping 30 mg SCSI HD, and used it for three more years. At the time, it cost twice what my car did. *sigh* Those were the days...

g.

[leehljp]

I bought my first Mac in '89 because of a magazine ad. I purchased several PC magazines and a couple of Mac magazines from the English language section of a Japanese book store (Shibuya) the day before flying back to the US - to decide what I wanted in my 3rd computer. In the back of a Mac mag was an ad for Japanese OS for the Mac with ENGLISH instructions.

Up to the early '90s, the Japanese philosophy was - you had to be an insider to understand the lingo. Getting there was the pits and computer manuals were only written for geeks. PERIOD.

Well, I bought an SE-30, installed the Japanese OS and went away flying into Japanese writing. I took the "Finder" (Desktop controls) from the English OS and placed it into the Japanese OS (after removing the Japanese Finder). Viola, I had a Japanese OS with English menus! With each upgrade until OS 8, I did this. Worked well.

The Macs did multiple languages well! My PC buddies and co-workers had to shut down a system and re-start or use System Commander EVERYTIME they wanted to go from Japanese to English or English to Japanese in a single document. (Japanese people did not have this problem as much, but their English text looked like double byte coding.) Macs on the other hand just needed a key touch to switch languages back and forth in the same document.

I spent far more time in productivity, i.e. writing in Japanese and English (as did other mac users) than using tech talk about how to do it.

Our organization started going "paperless" in the mid 90's saving tons of mail cost. They kept sending documents in MS Word. At the same time they were pushing Windows even though we were responsible for buying our own. (I had one anyway.) Well, for the myriad of PC/DOS/Windows setups, about 30% of our co-workers couldn't open or read the Word documents without gibberish. No rhyme or reason could be figured out why it worked once but not the next time by our tech guys - EXCEPT for - 1. a few who knew that Japanese OSs affected the outcome; different versions of Word affected the outcome; Different version of Windows affected the outcome; and 2. Mac users without exception could open ALL without a problem.

Then we got two messages:
Message 1: EVERY ONE in the near future _would_ consolidate on Windows. NO mail to be sent inter-office except going through a Window's system. AND you must purchase your own with your own funds. (This policy did not come to pass but it almost did by our home office and on field tech guys.)

Message 2:
A. Would Mac users open Word documents from the home office on their Macs,
B. save the documents in a Mac Word format -
C. and forward those documents to Window's users - so that they could read the Window's Word Docs from the US office! (This occurred over a two year period.)

Arrogant? Yes! But there was a reason! - Pushed into it!

[OpaDC]

This discussion has a familiar ring to it. Can you say Ford / Chevy or Beta / VHS?

[gsmittle]

This discussion has a familiar ring to it. Can you say Ford / Chevy or Beta / VHS?

HEY! Now you're talkin' religion!

g.