Labor unions - The good, the bad, and the ugly

[Richard in Smithville]

A.B.G., Steelworkers, and now Canadian Auto Workers. The first two shops I worked in, the union was "there" but was never really needed as we had great relations with the management. Then we got bought out and new management came with it. That's when the union kicked into high gear. If it wasn't for the union, the management would have walked all over us. When I got transferred to the latest shop, I went from Steelworkers to CAW but the overall management stayed the same. Once again the union is needed to keep this management from wreaking havoc with the work force. The lower end of management is ok, it's just middle and up.

[kbkreisler]

Unions sure can be a mixed bag of ups and downs, But as the job market shifts heavily into the employers favor, one can expect to see a lot of employers taking advantage of the job markets tough conditions. paring benefits, wages, and generally expecting more of employees for less.
On the other side of the coin though in times of recession, many consumers are expecting more value from retailers, who unwilling to face a reduction in profit would love to pass that defecit onto their employees, and the manufacturers that supply their goods. These manufacturers also would like to stay in the black, so they follow suit and do the same to their employees and ultimately everyone gets a taste of the unstable economy.

I think when a labor union is involved companies have a harder time reducing compensation, it promotes more transparency of the reasoning behind a company reduction, and more equality in the level of "cuts" between the white, and blue collar workforce.

[smchange01]

Unions sure can be a mixed bag of ups and downs, But as the job market shifts heavily into the employers favor, one can expect to see a lot of employers taking advantage of the job markets tough conditions. paring benefits, wages, and generally expecting more of employees for less.
On the other side of the coin though in times of recession, many consumers are expecting more value from retailers, who unwilling to face a reduction in profit would love to pass that defecit onto their employees, and the manufacturers that supply their goods. These manufacturers also would like to stay in the black, so they follow suit and do the same to their employees and ultimately everyone gets a taste of the unstable economy.

I think when a labor union is involved companies have a harder time reducing compensation, it promotes more transparency of the reasoning behind a company reduction, and more equality in the level of "cuts" between the white, and blue collar workforce.

[there are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those that dont.]

Just hit me. You either mean that there is only (1) one type of people, or there are (01) two types of people. I taught binary math for 01 (two) years at a Junior College.

[burrellski]

Labor Union Issue NO ONE will talk about

I have a pretty strong opinion on this matter, but I am not going to comment. I'm pretty sure I can't keep politics out of it. I will tell everyone that there is a piece of legislation that will more than likely pass that will drastically change industry in the US.

Everyone should dig into the Employee Free Choice Act and find whatever unbiased info you can. Good Luck

It received zero media coverage in the campaign. If anyone needs an explanation of why this is a very, very bad idea, I'll give you my opinion off-line.

[Texas splinter]

Yes, when working at The Boeing Company from '91 to '02, I belonged to SPEEA (Seattle Professional Engineering Employees Association) which is a white-collar union. I joined when I started at Boeing because the union health plan accepted exsisting conditions but the company plan had a one-year exception. Since my wife and I both had exsisting back problems, it made sense to me to join. The dues wren't much and, unlike the blue-collar unions, no one would say anything if I turn on or off a light switch. :~)
Things heated up around 1999 when the company, in a panic, gave the IAM (the union of the people on the shop floor, assembling the planes) everything they asked for on their contract, then told the professional unit that they couldn't afford to give us anything cause they gave all the money to the IAM.
Up untill that point, we had been strictly a company union, but had been talking to the C.I.O and they invited us to join up with them. They sent real organizers to talk to us and next thing you know - we were out on strike. We stayed out for about a month, then the company gave in on much of the demands and we came back to work.
Since then, the company has paid a LOT more attention to the SPEEA demands and requests.
It was all about fair treatment between the professional and technical units and the blue-collars on the factory floor.
Would I do it again? in a heart-beat. Would I join the IAM or UAW? Not on your life.
Previous to this experience a tBoeing, I had always been anti-union.

[eccentrictinkerer]

[there are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those that dont.]

Just hit me. You either mean that there is only (1) one type of people, or there are (01) two types of people. I taught binary math for 01 (two) years at a Junior College.

Your decimal point must be off!

01 Binary = Decimal 1
10 Binary = Decimal 2
11 Binary = Decimal 3
100 Binary = Decimal 4

I started at Univac in 1966 when we programmed only in hexadecimal (don't get me started).

[Ed62]

I worked in both unionized jobs, and non-union jobs. By far, my longest trek was as a steelworker, belonging to the United Steelworkers of America for 30 plus years. From my experience, I'll give you my 2 cents worth.

1. The good: Without unions, management would be walking all over their employees, just like they did before unions. Safety is a big issue here.

Non-union jobs also prosper because of unions. Management is forced to "play fair", or there will be a threat of a union being formed.

In the early 1990s, I was retired from the steel mill. I came out with a small pension and health insurance coverage. The company decided to do away with our health insurance, even though we were covered by a contract. The union took the company to court, and won the case.

2: The bad: Because of unions, the most qualified person for a job doesn't always get it (seniority issue). I've seen this happen more times than I can remember. But this is also partly the fault of the company. In most contracts, they have the right to award the job to the most qualified person. It's just easier to go by seniority, even if it hurts the bottom line.

3: The ugly: Unions often go overboard to protect their members. When I was working, we had overhead cranes that routinely carried 15 - 30 ton loads for moving from one place to another. We had 1 craneman who came in drunk more often than not. He could easily have dropped a load on another co-worker. Whenever he got in trouble with management, the union would come to his aid. Of course, the company also was to blame for this because our General Foreman had a drinking problem of his own. He wanted to keep it "under the rug". Upper management also knew what was going on. But they didn't want too much "bad news" getting to the outside world.

So my opinion of unions is a mixed bag. They are not always acting in the best interest of their members. Refer to #3. People were always put in the path of danger because they were protecting 1 man instead of everyone else.

But management also gets a big share of the blame. If they didn't take the easy way out, it would have been a safer and more profitable company.

I could go on and on, but have probably said enough.

Ed

[BobSch]

When I first started with the Bell sysytem I had to join the CWA. At least the group I was in wasn't nuts about doing someone elses job. I started losing respect for the union execs when I realized that no strike would go more than three weeks, because that's when the they would have to sart paying out benefits.

[kbkreisler]

bin, hex, alpha num, oct, math just aint easy for geeks...

[sparkeyjames]

I have never been in a union however my father was in the UAW for over 20 years as a tool and die builder for Chrysler. My father never smoked or drank and from all I gather was a good conscientious worker. Some of those he worked around however were anything but. Like the guy that ran the forks of a forklift through my fathers toolbox. Did that idiot have to pay for the toolbox? Nope the company had to reimburse my father for a new toolbox. Or the guy that pushed a button on a magnetic clamp on a grinding machine while my fathers hand was still in the machine bed positioning the piece, he lost the tip of a finger (1/16 of an inch) to that idiot. He did get back at the grinder guy though. When he got back to work he walked around with a 2 foot long 1/2" round steel rod over his shoulder. When the grinder dude saw him he sprinted for the exit. My dad never would have hit the guy but he told me he sure did nave fun scaring the crap out of him. Did they get fired? H*ll no. They just got a short day ie go home see you tomorrow. Other stupid stories include having to wait around for 2 days to get a die moved from his work area to the test press. He did nothing for 2 solid days. This happened more than once. Too many stories of drunks and drug abusers to list. He retired in 1988.

[Tamarack]

I was working in a Right-To-Work state with a supervisor who was an idiot AND a drunk who didn't like me at all. I anticipated a serious disagreement down the line and joined the union for some additional backing. He had been working for state civil service agencies all his life and they only had to explain it on paper three times that he would make MORE MONEY being retired than he was working! He finally comprehended this (he was a very dim bulb) and retired. I was a member of the union for two years and never saw a union official at all; when they told me the dues were being raised I quit the union because all they wanted was my money. There was no interest in "The good of all the members", the only interest seemed to be in increasing the pay for union officers. It left a real bad taste in my mouth toward all unions.

Paul

[Hoover]

I was a former Boeing worker, 1988-2003. I belonged to the IAM Internation Association of Machinists. Several times Boeing attempted to lay me off, and spoil my rights to healthcare and a pension. I was glad there was a union to protect me.

Am I biased for unions, yes, but I do have a retiree pension and healthcare.

I do understand some people's anger towards unions, but I am greatful for having some protection in the workplace, and some protection from overtly charged management ax to grind. Off the soapbox.

[Pappy]

Scenario: You have a hole in your yard. Rather than filling it in, you let the grass grow over it and mow so it looks even. Your regular mailman is out sick and a sub is on the route for the first time. He steps in the hole and breaks his ankle. Who is at fault?

According to postal management, the injured carrier was not practicing safe work habits and should be disiplined for the infraction.

When you deal with this type of management mentality, unions become a necessity. Yes, they are required to defend members, and non-members, even when management is right. In our case, those cases are in the minority.

[dkerfoot]

Scenario: You have a hole in your yard. Rather than filling it in, you let the grass grow over it and mow so it looks even. Your regular mailman is out sick and a sub is on the route for the first time. He steps in the hole and breaks his ankle. Who is at fault?

This is nit picking, but I am pretty sure that postal carriers are supposed to stay off the grass and walk on the paved surfaces only and that is why it would be considered an unsafe practice.

[crokett]

This is nit picking, but I am pretty sure that postal carriers are supposed to stay off the grass and walk on the paved surfaces only and that is why it would be considered an unsafe practice.

If you don't know already, Pappy is a mailman.