10 Cars That Sank Detroit

[cgallery]

I've owned 3 New Chrysler products in the last 8 years.

A 2000 Jeep TJ - great vehicle with a bulletproof engine. Totaled by the wife.

When they can figure out how to make a car wife proof, I'll guarantee at least one sale.

[Russianwolf]

The import makers have been mostly doing things right as far as making dependable products with long life spans for fair prices.

Not sure I can agree with that comment.

When I was looking at trucks back in the mid 90's, I looked hard at the GMC 1500 then went across the street and looked at the T-100. I asked the dealer why I should pay an extra $6k over the GMC for the T-100. "because its a Toyota" I'm SOOOOOOO glad I didn't pay that premium.

Way back when, the imports had decent prices. Now I think you pay more for the name than you do for the car.

[crokett]

That's interesting. Haven't heard of any problems. Were they 4 or 6-cyls? Mine is a 4. Same engine as in my LOML's '07 Dodge Caliber.

4-bangers. Older than yours. My SILs was an '03, other was an 04 (I think)

I drove the new van home tonight and decided that when it comes time to replace the Vibe I will drop 5-6 grand in a used Toyota or Honda hatchback. The fit/finish on this van is so much nicer than my parents' Town & Country. They bought it new in May. Ours has more options but the workmanship is much nicer.

[Tom Slick]

I think that is a biased report for nothing more then entertainment. Although a agree some of those more recent vehicles were poor decisions, I have a hard time believing 20 and 30 year old vehicles somehow play into the issues they've had for the last decade.

I believe the problem with the big 3 is systemic. They were lazy when times were good and failed to plan for events such as what is happening today. GM has been in the dumps for years, as has Ford. I'm not sure Chrysler has had a stellar year in the last 3 decades. The Japanese seem to understand the difference between making a ton of money now and doing well 10 years from now. I just read that Toyota has a constantly evolving 50 year plan. Also take a look at CEO turnover in Japanese companies vs. American companies.

[3thumbs]

Three words have sunk Detroit. United Auto Workers.

[mpc]

Good luck. My brother's wife's Sebring engine blew last spring. They spent the last 3 months they had it paying it off while it sat in the driveway. A guy on my team at work drives one. He opted to replace the engine after his engine blew last summer.

Which engine? The 2.7 liter V6 used in many ChryCo products (mid 90s to early 2000s) is actually a Mitsubishi design... and it has miserable crankcase ventilation and oil passages that lead to sludge buildup in 50K to 70K miles... leading to siezed engines that gouge enough parts they usually can't be rebuilt. I know those were used in the Intrepid/Concord "LH" chassis cars and could be optional in other (smaller) cars - especially some built on platforms shared with Mitsu. A friend experienced the "sludge" and the run-around the dealer & Dodge tried to give her - "oh, sludge buildup. That's owner neglect and isn't covered by the warrantee." Fortunately she kept immaculate repair records - and everything was done at the same dealer including oil changes more often than called for in the manuals. Otherwise it would have been a nine thousand dollar job to install a new engine.

mpc

[crokett]

Then it was the V6 in my SIL's car. I remember my brother saying something about sludge. I know he never plans to buy American again. I am not sure why my coworker had to replace his engine.

[Tom Slick]

If that is what scared him off of American then he'll have a hard time finding any car both the japanese and europeans make sludge prone engines too. I know toyota, volkswagen and saab have a sludge problem with certain engines.

[khf314]

What's happening to GM/Ford/Chrysler just magnifies what is wrong with American Big Business today.

1. "Let's meet our quotas for the quarter and to **** with next year/decade/century". Company CEOs and their whole management team only care about short term and their bonuses. Boards of Directors, which are supposed to have the shareholder's backs, are just lapdogs of the CEOs.

2. "I'm smarter than my customers". Remember what Abe Lincoln said about fooling the people.

3. "The way to increase profits is to cut costs". You end up with junk - maybe it looks okay on the outside but inside it's still junk. This is why I will not buy any electronics from Wal-Mart or Costco - even if it's from a recognizable name the seller has beat the price down so far that you get second rate components. That's also why when I call customer service for many companies I get a voice on the other end barely speaking english in a sing-song accent, telling me their name is James or Barbara.

4. "We need to meet Wall Street's expectations. Let's announce we are laying off 10% of our employees, the stock will go up at least 20 points". Like most of the people on this board, I consider myself a motivated, high skilled person, who is a hard worker and has made sacrifices for the various companies I have worked for. So why have I found myself laid off three times from these various companies? They expect loyalty from you - but it only goes one way.

I'm sure I could list more - but it's time to get off my soapbox. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir.

Anyone have any ideas how to fix this? Or is it too late already?

[fbrend123]

4-bangers. Older than yours. My SILs was an '03, other was an 04 (I think).

The only four that I've had prior to this was a '95 Neon, which I drove for 100,000 miles. They had timing belt problems at high mileage, but that one was handed down through the family and ran for another 50,000 miles before it was retired. My avenger was a 2.5 liter v-6. We've had a lot of Chrysler products since '92, and haven't had any major problems, so far. We usually put about 100,000 miles on a car before we get rid of it. Regular lube and oil changes by the dealer are the norm.

For reliability, I can't beat my '03 Ram FWD Diesel P/U. That Cummins is indestructable. Only problems that I've had with that vehicle is rust-through on the bottom of the tailgate and both wheel arches on the rear quarters. Dealer said it was a design flaw, having foam injected between the inner and outer panels, which absorbed moisture. They cut out the rusted metal and replaced it with new on the wheel arches. Had to hand form the panels, since no patch panels were available. Awesome job. Also replaced the tailgate. Chrysler made it good, and my rust-through warranty lasts through July '10.

I worked for another car company for many years, but have been driving Chrysler products (very happily) since '92, when I bought my first Dodge Caravan (used), and my first Dodge Cummins P/U (new). I've had excellent service from both the cars and my Chrysler dealer, unlike what I experienced with the other. Part of the problem was that just about everyone in the area worked for the same company, bought their cars on the employee discount, and the local dealers thought that they owned you. The reason I switched is irrelevant in this forum, but I used to think that hassling with the dealer(s) and their service departments, along with constant nickel and dime repairs, was part of owning a car. Haven't had that problem since I switched.

[jziegler]

While the list might not be perfect, I think that the general idea is right. There are very few cars that he big three make today that I'd even consider buying. I currently have a Pontiac Vibe like Crockett, but I wouldn't be likely to buy the new model. They pushed more performance into it at the cost of fuel efficiency, which was one of the main reasons that I bought it in the first place. That seems to the story of most current American cars, and many of the imports as well. I also see no other compelling small cars from Detroit. The American small cars feel like cheap, unsafe tin cans, where the (more efficient) European and Japanese small cars feel more substantial, and generally look better built. Unfortunately, our next car will probably be a minivan (three greyhounds has a way of doing that to people), and the Honda and Hyundai/Kia would be at the top of the list (well, the Mazda5 would be higher, but it's probably too small). Chrysler products don't interest me much since I drove my parents 88 Caravan learning to drive. That was a real dog to drive, and the stupid thing blew a head gasket twice, without ever making it to 100k miles. I know the newer ones have gotten better than that, but I have bad memories. And the last Chrysler I drove was a rental PT cruiser, and it had the worst control layout and most uncomfortable driver's seat of any car that I remember driving.

I'd like to see the American big three survive, I know that the jobs are good for the country, but they really did bring this on themselves. Obviously there are people who like their cars and continue to buy them, but there are also big portions of the market that have been put off their cars enough to not buy them again. It will be hard from them to overcome that, but I wish them luck.

Jim

[Russianwolf]

Just remember this too guys.

If the big three disappear, what's going to keep the imports from making crappier vehicles.

Less competition has a way of allowing that.

I honestly haven't seen anything from Honda/Toyota that I've liked the looks of since the mid 90's. Mazda is still making some nice looking cars. I don't even notice the Nissans anymore, which is to say they are boring. VW and Audi look real nice to me too. Most of the Honda/Toyotas just look weird to me now.

[fbrend123]

Just remember this too guys.

If the big three disappear, what's going to keep the imports from making crappier vehicles.

Less competition has a way of allowing that.

I honestly haven't seen anything from Honda/Toyota that I've liked the looks of since the mid 90's. Mazda is still making some nice looking cars. I don't even notice the Nissans anymore, which is to say they are boring. VW and Audi look real nice to me too. Most of the Honda/Toyotas just look weird to me now.

Agree completely. Furthermore, I can get along with a smaller car, since it's just me and LOML, but the half-ton pickups from Japan won't do the job that my Ram 2500 does. It has its place in my household, too. What will they have to replace it?

[ragswl4]

The big 3 won't go away even if they go through bankruptcy. Three new companies will emerge (or merge into less). As has been said here, the autoworkers union has played a large part in the current condition of these companies. I doubt many companies will survive paying $73 per hour to its workers while the competition pays $48. The economics says, NO!

If your company worries about this quarters profits instead of the quality of its products I doubt your company will be competitive in the long haul.

If we want to buy American cars then we are out of luck. There are very few vehicles that fit that description. Many of the posts here support that with Ford using Mazda engines, Chrysler using Mitsubishi, GM using Toyota. The Big 3 talk out of both sides of their mouths. I guess a Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Hyndai are as much "Mada in the USA" as the Big 3.

Detroit is lucky that they pretty much have a lock on the pickup truck market but I doubt that will last long either. Even GM uses an Izusu diesel in its big pickup. Why is that? Don't we have the technology and engineering here to manufacture a diesel engine? Of course we do, Cummins and International do it for Dodge and Ford. GM uses the Izusu because its more cost effective for them.

Toyota (and Lexus) is the premier automaker in the world, IMHO. If you want to know how they do it read the book "The Toyota Way".

[germdoc]

Not to get too political, but if you look at a map of the last election and who voted for whom, you'll see that the upper midwest where I live is solidly one color. The states of Michigan, Indiana and Wisconsin basically swung the election. There is no way in h*** the new congress will not bail out the auto companies, not to mention Gov. Granholm. To not do so would be political malpractice.

Now whether it's a good idea or not, that's a different question...

[Mods--if you think this is too political you can delete it]