Auto gas mileage

[JimD]

The other unknown about hybrids that concerns me a bit is reliability of the hybrid system in the longer term. The battery pack seems like a major expense when it requires replacement plus the control system to switch between the gas and electric propulsion. If the up-front cost is the only differential, then you can calculate your payback based upon the assumed gas cost and mileage difference. If you have major repair expenses on the hybrid, it could really mess up the payback, however. It seems like the repair expenses for the new, relatively unproven, equipment could approach or even exceed the up-front cost difference.

Jim

[Russianwolf]

Well, I don't have a Prius, I rented one (almost a two week rental, so I got a good feel for it). It handles well, and had plenty of power for me. Mileage was good. It was comfortable. Visibility is not great. Good cargo space. It was fine for four adults on an almost two week vacation with luggage.

For other options, you can get hybrid Camrys, Accords, and Altimas now. Some of the compact cars get excellent gas mileage now and can be pretty nice, plus bigger than a few years ago. The Corolla, Civic, Sentra and others are no longer tiny econoboxes, and are just a little smaller than some mid sized cars of ten years ago. They might be worth at least a quick look.

Jim

Didn't they ax the Accord Hybrid?

[jziegler]

Didn't they ax the Accord Hybrid?

Looks like you are right. I hadn't caught that before. Looks like Camry, Altima, and Prius are the main hybrid choices then.

Jim

[MilDoc]

For other options, you can get hybrid Camrys, Accords, and Altimas now. Some of the compact cars get excellent gas mileage now and can be pretty nice, plus bigger than a few years ago. The Corolla, Civic, Sentra and others are no longer tiny econoboxes, and are just a little smaller than some mid sized cars of ten years ago. They might be worth at least a quick look.

Jim

The hybrid Camry doesn't get much better highway gas mileage than the gas Camry. The Altima is not available in Texas.

[MilDoc]

The other unknown about hybrids that concerns me a bit is reliability of the hybrid system in the longer term. The battery pack seems like a major expense when it requires replacement plus the control system to switch between the gas and electric propulsion.
Jim

Reports on the net from Prius owners that have had their car 4 years report no problems, no battery replacement. I believe the battery pack has to by law be guaranteed for a number of years but I haven't checked that out yet.

[jaybee]

If you have an older Prius, then this:

http://www.hymotion.com/products.htm

may well be the answer. I saw a blog entry somewhere that claimed the drop-in replacement battery unit was just becoming available for 10 grand. About 5 1/2 hours of charge time would get you over 30 miles of electric only, and you could then rely on gas to get you to an electric socket.

[JoeyGee]

The other unknown about hybrids that concerns me a bit is reliability of the hybrid system in the longer term. The battery pack seems like a major expense when it requires replacement plus the control system to switch between the gas and electric propulsion. If the up-front cost is the only differential, then you can calculate your payback based upon the assumed gas cost and mileage difference. If you have major repair expenses on the hybrid, it could really mess up the payback, however. It seems like the repair expenses for the new, relatively unproven, equipment could approach or even exceed the up-front cost difference.

Jim

While I was shopping for a new vehicle, I spoke to a Toyota dealer, and asked him specifically about the reliability of the Prius and the batteries. He said there is a taxi company using them (in Montreal, maybe?) that run them 24/7, most with over 300,000 miles (or km...) and no battery issues. Of course, he is a car dealer...

[LinuxRandal]

The Hybrid Escape, gets about two miles more per gallon in town, then my Ranger, according to the sticker I saw at the auto show.


I have an autobody friend who got called to paint a hybrid. Brand new, just off the lot and got creamed. Cost $7000 for the battery pack (had to be replaced due to crack and newer model that none were around yet)

I know weight has been mentioned, my 85 Escort, had the last of the 5 MPH bumpers (changed in 85 1/2 to 2.5 MPH), and got the same in town mileage as my Ranger (21 MPG in town, I tend to drive under 20 miles a day)

[FL Buckeye]

I also drive a Prius, 2006 model. Have had it for 25 months and 36,400 miles to date. It has not been back to a dealer for any repair/problems. A dealer has changed oil/filter twice, I have done all the other OC's, tire rotations, etc. The OEM Goodyears are not highly rated by some owners but have been fine for me, and they are not expensive to replace. I keep a log of every fillup, and have averaged 48.6 for the last 6,400 miles. Probably over 5000 of those miles were on Interstates with speeds from 65 to 80+ mph, as we have been home only 2 of the last 50 days, traveling to OH, IL & TN twice. (We are in TN now, hope to be home again next week.)

The hybrid parts, including the HV batteries are covered for 8 year/100,000 miles in most states. In CA and some of the NE states that have stricter EPA the coverage is 10years/150,000 miles. If you are just comparing mpg against cost of ownership you maybe can work the numbers to justify any vehicle you want. But the hybrids are usually equiped as a high end model would be, like loaded. The Prius is hard to compare because there is no non-hybrid model. The Corolla could be close but it doesn't come in a hatchback, doesn't have Automatic Climate Control even as an option, same for CVT transmission and navigation, etc.

And, yes, at a steady 30 mph the engine does have to start to keep the batteries charged, but thats why they call it a hybrid. If I sit in the car in a parking lot with the AC turned on while the LOML is inside a store shopping, the engine actually starts now and then to charge the batteries as the AC is electric. But that sure beats having the engine running all the time for the AC to operate. I sure hope more choices become available to meet our driving needs, but until then I'll keep my Prius at least until a better version comes out, hopefully in 2010.

[MilDoc]

We went to Toyota tday. Turns out the Prius is so popular no one in Texas has any on the lot for sale, only a few already sold + a demonstrator.

We both drove their demo and I was impressed as was she. Cool car. Nice but not great acceleration. VERY comfortable with more interior room front and back then her Accord. QUIET. Handles nice. Weird sitting at a light and hear nothing as the gas engine is off!

So LOML ordered a new 2008 Prius with the option package that includes, VSC, backup camera, cruise control. Price was good, no dickering since they don't have to. But she got more than KBB quote for her Accord, so she's happy. And she is frugal. When the car is delivered in 1-2 months she'll write them a check. No loans needed.

[jackellis]

We drove a Prius for two days in the New York - mixed highway and stop-and-go - and got 50 MPG according to the meter and 60 MPG according to the fuel bill. $13 for 200+ miles.

I used to have a '83 Sentra that easily got 37 MPG on the highway. We sold it after my wife got hit twice and regret that decision every day now.

It's tough to justify the cost premium for a hybrid unless you do a lot of driving, even at higher fuel prices. My guess is that gas will get to as much as $6 before we start seeing meaningful amounts of biofuels (made from algae or non-food plant matter) appear in 3-5 years that will drive the price of gasoline back down. Not to $1/gallon, but perhaps below $3.

[annunaki]

What about these add on water burning (hydrogen releasing) systems?

http://hhowater4gas.com/
http://www.articleanswer.com/Drive_Car_On_Water3.htm
http://www.waterforgas.tv/?gclid=CMT...FQOjFQod8yz23g

[MilDoc]

HHO gas. Right. This has kicked around for a LONG time. H2O = HHO which is actually a mixture of H2 and O2 produced by electrolysis. The car runs on H2 gas. Producing it is NOT cheap. Storing it is DANGEROUS. The energy required to produce is costly. MIGHT be worth a look if gas > $5 a gallon, AND a safe storage system could be introduced. Otherwise, another "pie in the sky" dream.

[Russianwolf]

HHO gas. Right. This has kicked around for a LONG time. H2O = HHO which is actually a mixture of H2 and O2 produced by electrolysis. The car runs on H2 gas. Producing it is NOT cheap. Storing it is DANGEROUS. The energy required to produce is costly. MIGHT be worth a look if gas > $5 a gallon, AND a safe storage system could be introduced. Otherwise, another "pie in the sky" dream.

why do you say it's dangerous. BMW has crash tested Hydrogen cars and none have exploded as some people have suggested.

[MilDoc]

First you have to produce it, takes a lot of energy for less output. Then you have to be able to store it, and transport it to the storage sites (ie, "gas" stations), or produce it on-site and store it, Then you have to have a safe system to get it into cars at high pressure. Otherwise mileage is very limited. then you have to protect the tanks in the cars.

Lots of steps. Lots of places for explosions. More powerful than a gasoline explosion.

Someday, maybe.