Massad Ayoob

[paintandbodtman]

Any topics that have been gun related have been nothing more than idle conversation, questions and answers. Nobody has made it political, caused a riot ,etc. Let sleeping dogs lie..

Striving to be PC makes life boring. Next we will have the joke police, ban listing any tools by name, etc. As usual, if you don't believe in a topic, stay out of it or ignore it. Your values are YOUR values, keep it that way. Let the moderators or owner of the site weed out the questionable content.

NO offense intended but unless you are a moderator or the owner I like the way you follow your own advice.

[MilDoc]

The "politics" of guns and gun control can not be decided, debated, etc. by most folks. Most opinions are deep, ingrained, and in many cases, taught. But, I agree, this post is pushing the limit.

And being "PC" has nothing to do with that. (FWIW, I hate how "PC" this country has become)

Religion, politics, gun control, abortion, etc etc etc have no place on this forum.

[Anna]

And being "PC" has nothing to do with that. (FWIW, I hate how "PC" this country has become)

Well, I for one think PCs are crap and everyone should buy Macs.

Okay, wrong topic. And that's a different sort of religious discussion altogether.

As someone who's probably responsible for much of the kerfuffle because I started the gun threads to begin with, may I just ask a few questions?

One: Did you guys even read Rusty's link? Is that site political because it contains links to the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence?

Or is it political because Ayoob, whom I've never heard of until his name showed up in the other thread, is possibly a Second Amendment supporter? I actually don't know that for a fact. Do you?

A majority of his articles are on self-defense and gun technicalities. How political is the article "Against a rapist"? Or "Picking a holster"?

Guessing that he's politically involved is as sound and as relevant as JR guessing that this thread is anti-Arab. (No offense intended, JR!)

Two: What was it about the gun threads that were political? I don't think anyone even mentioned the phrase "gun control." Are there different types of guns? Yes. Are there different types of ammos? Yes. Are there different rules for getting a license to carry guns? Yes. Just because we exchange information does not mean that we're advocating any political action whatsoever. In fact, the gun threads are just as political as the threads discussing the different zoning laws in building a shed, or electrical codes specific to your town. (And in case I didn't make my point clear, that means it's not political at all. )

And please, let's be smart about this. Talking about guns is not the same as talking about gun control. It's true that the topic could have easily devolved in that direction, but it didn't. So until it does, then let's not call it a "political discussion."

[russd]

Wow

Okay - first off, I don't know what shocked me more - that one of my posts was read or the number of responses to my post!

I rarely post on here (or anywhere) but have found a lot of valuable information on this site. When reading one of Anna's other posts I saw a mention to Massad Ayoob and I thought that she might find the site I linked to interesting. That was it. As far as being political - to quote Tom Hanks from the movie Big "I DON'T GET IT!" I had no intention of offending anyone, or starting anything.

I appreciate those who have responded in a positive way.

And PS - you're right Anna - Mac's do rule! )

[radhak]

In the spirit of civil discussion, and in defence of others like me who spoke their mind on that website, let's see : the original post said "Massad Ayoob's articles", but linked only to the home page. I scroll down that page, locate that name on the left (under BHM Blogs) and click on it, which takes me to the opening page by Ayoob where he's discussing the Presidential race in general, and the position on gun control by Obama and McCain in particular. I cannot think of anything more political in nature, so I exit that site, come back here and report on what i saw.

No, I did not look for other, better articles, nor did I try to review that site. If there had been a direct link to a specific article, I might have had a different opinion. I am sure there are fine, instructive articles out there, but I'll allow others to comment on them. As such, I was reacting to Wayne's comment that Anna's threads were just as offensive, and that we all here are selective in our criticism.

[Anna]

In the spirit of civil discussion, and in defence of others like me who spoke their mind on that website, let's see : the original post said "Massad Ayoob's articles", but linked only to the home page. I scroll down that page, locate that name on the left (under BHM Blogs) and click on it, which takes me to the opening page by Ayoob where he's discussing the Presidential race in general, and the position on gun control by Obama and McCain in particular. I cannot think of anything more political in nature, so I exit that site, come back here and report on what i saw.

No, I did not look for other, better articles, nor did I try to review that site. If there had been a direct link to a specific article, I might have had a different opinion. I am sure there are fine, instructive articles out there, but I'll allow others to comment on them. As such, I was reacting to Wayne's comment that Anna's threads were just as offensive, and that we all here are selective in our criticism.

That's so funny. I clicked on the OP's link, saw "Authors" and guessed that they're listed alphabetically, then just scrolled down to see Ayoob's list of articles. I normally don't consider a blog post as an "article" so I didn't even think about looking for a blog.

I guess in a sense we were talking apples and oranges.

[Pappy]

I thought the original link went directly to a specific article and not an index. Whether I agreed or disagreed with the sentiments expressed was not my point. I simply stated that, in my opinion, it was a bit too political for this forums rules.

If I am confusing this with another post/thread I offer my sincere appologies.

I went to the link in the original post after reading all the comments and looked around. I specifically scanned several of Mr. Ayoob's articles and did not see the one I am thinking of. Further, I did not find the content of the site, or the articles I looked at, to be either offensive or inflammatory to me.

FWIW, I was raised with loaded guns in the house and currently have a Marlin 336 30-30, my Mother's Remington 1100 20 Gauge, and a Stevens Model 87B 22 Semi-automatic. All 3 are kept loaded.

One last thing. Ain't never been accused of being PC!

[Black wallnut]

In the spirit of civil discussion, and in defence of others like me who spoke their mind on that website, let's see : the original post said "Massad Ayoob's articles", but linked only to the home page. I scroll down that page, locate that name on the left (under BHM Blogs) and click on it, which takes me to the opening page by Ayoob where he's discussing the Presidential race in general, and the position on gun control by Obama and McCain in particular. I cannot think of anything more political in nature, so I exit that site, come back here and report on what i saw.

No, I did not look for other, better articles, nor did I try to review that site. If there had been a direct link to a specific article, I might have had a different opinion. I am sure there are fine, instructive articles out there, but I'll allow others to comment on them. As such, I was reacting to Wayne's comment that Anna's threads were just as offensive, and that we all here are selective in our criticism.

Bold and Red added by me. The OP said articles; you went to blog. Myself with previous knowledge of Mas Ayoob glanced at the posted list of articles under his name. For a number of years I read everything I could find with his sig line. I was very familiar with his writings. Mas has always presented information without political slant. I've friends who are friends of his. It seemed that the list of articles authored ran the gamut of what one would expect from Mas. His writing is generally a-political.

With the above in mind I believe that this topic was started without Political motivations. Further discussion on if or if not it is political is turning it into a political discussion. Folks lets drop this line of discussion and move on. If you feel a post crosses the line feel free to PM, email or use the forum software to "report post" to myself, the moderators or Sam. (report post button does not bring it to my attention, but does quickly to the other moderators.) I think the following says it all:

In fact, the gun threads are just as political as the threads discussing the different zoning laws in building a shed, or electrical codes specific to your town. ........Talking about guns is not the same as talking about gun control. .....

BTW to bring this conversation back on track, I'm guessing that most larger libraries would have a good selection of books written by Ayoob. Many gun shops also stock them. If guns are one of your hobbies IMHO his writing is worth reading. In the past he has written regular columns in several of the gun magazines. I'm not sure if he is a columnist currently.

BTW Pappy you had me scratching my head; good to see you repost!

[Pappy]

BTW, the blog was also what I read and thought was questionable. I plan to spend more time looking at the site.

[Stytooner]

The very first link I clicked on over there was about a woman that built her own vertical log studio. I thought that was cool. I had to dig before I could find anything with political overtones. Didn't read the blogs and rarely ever do.
I thought the sites links hold a variety of interesting topics even if some may be considered political. Many have nothing to do with it.
Google just about anything and go deep enough through the results and you are likely to find politics and or porn. These items are just so prevalent on the web that one is likely to run into them unintentionally if not careful.

Many assumptions were made about the site and the Rusty's intention for posting. Some have been clarified and amended. I like seeing that.

FWIW, I keep loaded weapons in the house too. Always have. If I wasn't going to keep them loaded, I'd leave them in the gun shop. They would do me just as good sitting on a shelf somewhere.
As long as you take precautions with your weapons, they can be safely kept at the ready.

[Bruce Cohen]

Mark,

Your comments reflect a cool head and a diplomatic way of dealing with what could have been a real PITA situation.

Sam was extremely smart choosing you to run this circus . Great job handling this.

With many thanks,

Bruce

BTW, I still have all that .45 brass, it's yours for the postage.

[Hellrazor]

NO offense intended but unless you are a moderator or the owner I like the way you follow your own advice.

*sigh*

I see you don't live up to your own glass house litmus test either.

This forum is not about butting heads with people pushing their values upon others. This forum is about woodworking, tools and helping each other out. If the topic strays from woodworking to jokes, information about a hobby (guns, RC helos, photography, etc), etc... who cares? If someone has something positive to say or can help out, great. If its something nobody knows or cares about, ignore it and life goes on. When you try to preach your values to others, someone gets annoyed and there is a problem. I come here to relax, see what is going on and see what interests me. I try to ignore stuff that I don't care about or is something I don't agree with. I don't expect someone to be a self proclaimed big brother and dictate what we can talk about. If we are completely out of line Sam, Mark, etc will deal with it.

BTW: You are right, I am not a moderator and I wouldn't want to be one. Most days I would just lay down the law and move on. Other days you would think a drill sergeant just got done with you. But by the same token, we know who is in charge here and who we have to listen to. No offense, but if you didn't get the hint between my previous post and this one, it isn't you.

[paintandbodtman]

*sigh*

I see you don't live up to your own glass house litmus test either.

This forum is not about butting heads with people pushing their values upon others. This forum is about woodworking, tools and helping each other out. If the topic strays from woodworking to jokes, information about a hobby (guns, RC helos, photography, etc), etc... who cares? If someone has something positive to say or can help out, great. If its something nobody knows or cares about, ignore it and life goes on. When you try to preach your values to others, someone gets annoyed and there is a problem. I come here to relax, see what is going on and see what interests me. I try to ignore stuff that I don't care about or is something I don't agree with. I don't expect someone to be a self proclaimed big brother and dictate what we can talk about. If we are completely out of line Sam, Mark, etc will deal with it.

BTW: You are right, I am not a moderator and I wouldn't want to be one. Most days I would just lay down the law and move on. Other days you would think a drill sergeant just got done with you. But by the same token, we know who is in charge here and who we have to listen to. No offense, but if you didn't get the hint between my previous post and this one, it isn't you.

HE!HE!HE!
Thank you for the compliment
Apperantly you don't get it either if you'll reread my first post and my response to Bruce Cohen's comments you 'll see my intentions were to point out that some of the people on this forum post a lot of posts that push the envelope so to speak on a lot of subjects like they could care less about other's perceptions of their material but as soon as someone posts something remotely offensive to them they p**s @ moan. The two that made the first two negative posts were gracious enough to admit they jumped the gun after going back and exploring the link.An admirable trait in MHO
But you're right about one thing I'll butt heads with arrogance anytime the opportunity arises.As for imposing my values on others my post had nothing to do with that,I stand by my original comment of the perception on my part of selective complaining an judging by some of the posts that followed mine others thought so as well.
Nothing on this or most forums that I visit offends me,I usually read most of the posts out of amusement and as entertainment.I often wonder if it is the anonimity of the internet that brings out some of these questions and comments or do people really have the sense of entitlement that some of the posts infer. I've dealt with the public all my life having been self employed with the exception of 4 years military during the Nam years and 5 years of teaching in a public high school in the late 90's early 2000's so i think I can handle anything your Drill Sargent mentality can dish out.
To the rest of you reading this I apologize to you for having had to witness this public display of my "Ignorance and Arrogance" .I also apoligize to anyone that takes offense to anything I alluded to in my last paragraph in this post nothing was intended to be aimed at anyone in particular,as Bruce Cohen so eloquently said some of you people amaze me.

Mark or Sam just say the word if you don't want people like me "causing trouble" and I'll make this my last post and graciously bow out.
You do have a great site and my hats off to you for hosting it, and tolerating the likes of me and the rest of us that can't follow our own advice.

Wayne

[dkerfoot]

I am really confused. So Massad Ayoob isn't an exotic hardwood species?

Today I am working on a tall rip fence & jig. I am also cleaning up an old Stanley plane.