So Whats WRONG with this Picture

[gjat]

I have family in law enforcement that have been shot, doing their job. I regularly employ those type of people that are fleeing. I saw nothing wrong with the night one. It looked to me as if the suspect intentionally ran in front of the car in order to take and angle the car couldn't turn and follow. It seemed as more as the fleeing suspect's fault.

The chase in the apartment complex I question the cop's choice to drive between the buildings and sidewalks. The cop showed restraint when he braked hard and kept from really striking the suspect who didn't even trip.

How fast does a person run (not a sprint) on the average? About 8 mph? The average person's reaction time (3/4 seconds) can bring a car to a stop in less than 10 feet at that speed.

[Richard in Smithville]

We saw the same series of video's up here on our local news. Whet this set stopped short of was the officer in the building complex plow through a play ground full of kids( who had to run out of the way) without slowing down just to get to the suspect! The audio in the second video was pretty happy that he ran the guy over; in fact he claimed to be trying to hit him best as he could. Another video in our news saw an officer knocking a teen to the ground and walking off with his skateboard. Why? The kid called him "Dude".

Edit: I found the kid with the skateboard

[LinuxRandal]

We saw the same series of video's up here on our local news. Whet this set stopped short of was the officer in the building complex plow through a play ground full of kids( who had to run out of the way) without slowing down just to get to the suspect! The audio in the second video was pretty happy that he ran the guy over; in fact he claimed to be trying to hit him best as he could. Another video in our news saw an officer knocking a teen to the ground and walking off with his skateboard. Why? The kid called him "Dude".

Edit: I found the kid with the skateboard

Locally, we had someone evade police, IN a motor vehicle, offroad, through some houses/duplex's yards. The officer chased and a teenage girl was struck and paralyzed by the officer as she heard some noise and just walked out her back door. As far as I know, it is still in the court system.

[Hellrazor]

The kid called him "Dude".
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I actually liked that video since I have problems with skateboarders at work. And the dumb ones have an entitlement attitude. I've barked more than one of them down for having an attitude. My favorite is "I have a right to skateboard" 'And I have a right to kick you out of here.'


Back to the original issue. Nobody who runs from the police is innocent. You just broke the law by fleeing an officer. Our whole country is turning into a bunch of litigious candya.... who think the ACLU, etc is going to bail them out. That is the reason discipline in schools, etc is non-existant. Do the crime, do the time.

[Pappy]

The only way hitting a fleeing suspect with a vehicle would not be excessive force, IMO, would be if the officer had witnessed a murder committed and there was no other way to stop him.

[jonmulzer]

The only way hitting a fleeing suspect with a vehicle would not be excessive force, IMO, would be if the officer had witnessed a murder committed and there was no other way to stop him.

How about him getting out of his cruiser and *gasp* running after him? If he is going to hit him with the cruiser, he may as well shoot him. He is using deadly force either way.

[Richard in Smithville]

How about him getting out of his cruiser and *gasp* running after him?

Not trying to pick on the entire police force, but too many of them would be gasping for breath should they ever have to run down a suspect on foot. I'm sure there are many on the force who strive to keep in shape but there should be standards in place if you wish to stay active on the force. I know in my job, if I can't perform the work required( through my own undoing) I won't have a job waiting for me.

[Hellrazor]

Not trying to pick on the entire police force, but too many of them would be gasping for breath should they ever have to run down a suspect on foot. I'm sure there are many on the force who strive to keep in shape but there should be standards in place if you wish to stay active on the force. I know in my job, if I can't perform the work required( through my own undoing) I won't have a job waiting for me.

You are disappointing me today That would be discrimination according to todays world and they would be all over you for it. If police can't use force because it isn't PC anymore, you can't use a physical shortcoming to your advantage because it isn't PC either. I work public sector and no matter what happens you are wrong. So I will be the first person to defend fellow public sector employees. Your generalization about being out of shape is kind of amusing. That is like saying "most people that work as a XXXXX are ignorant turds, but a few are ok."

Moral of the story: Don't judge, unless you plan to be judged too.

[Richard in Smithville]

Mike, all I am saying is that if certain standards are required to get a job(any job) then shouldn't the same standards be required to keep the same job?

[Hellrazor]

In reality, yes. In todays world, no. I am just playing devils advocate with this.

We are a very screwed up society in regards to this. Anyone can cry discrimination for any reason and you have a good chance to win. I had someone out on workmans comp with a return to work date set in stone on a release from the doctor. Didn't come back to work, didn't call in to book off, no contact at all. I recommended firing them for failing to follow procedures and was told we couldn't do that because it would be discrimination due to the comp issue. So being MIA is ok, even though it violates company policy... *shrug*

One of our other supervisors was at a hiring seminar. They said you can not discriminate against hiring someone, even if they can not do the job as advertised. You can not ask any question directly associated with the disability and being unable to do the job. There was a bunch of other crap that opened yourself to lawsuits too. You need to use a rating system to justify how you rank applicants and interviews. If they ever come back at you for not getting the job, you can justify the rankings.

[Richard in Smithville]

Very sad Mike. We have similar situations here up north.

[bmyers]

Youtube is awesome isn’t it? It's obvious to me that there is no shortage of individuals with poor judgment and a video camera in our world.

Some are perps, some are officers but they are all just people.

Bill

[JeffW]

Quite frankly, I don't know how anyone can come up with a decision that this case was excessive force. You do not have enough information to make that determination. Pappy is on target with his comments. Officers can use deadly force on fleeing subjects as long as the officer believe that the escape of the person presents a clear danger to society. Tennessee v Garner addressed the issue of fleeing felons and the continuing threat to society. The mere fact of fleeing is not enough to justify deadly force anymore. It used to be the law of the land.

I have used my car in the past to catch felons. I usually drive up next to them and open the door. Each situation is different and must be considered. Additionally accepted practice has changed over the 28 years I've been a LEO. What I used to do 20 years ago, may not be acceptable by today's standards.

I'll reserve judgment until I have all the facts.

just my 2cents

[jussi]

A few months back a police officer shot and killed a little boy who had stolen a car and was driving it right towards a police officer. The officer claimed it was self-defense as the car was being used as a deadly weapon. A claim I whole heartedly agree with and personally think the officer was justified even if the liberal media here doesn't. As I understand it deadly force is only justified if the officer feels his or someone else's life is in imminent danger. Now if the a car can be used as a deadly weapon what gives the officer the right to use it on a suspect who is merely running away and not about to cause imminent danger. All that said it's impossible to just an incident after watching a few seconds of video tape. This only my gut reaction to what I saw.

On a side note however I don't believe the police have been given way too much power. Not where I live anyway.

[rnelson0]

Whet this set stopped short of was the officer in the building complex plow through a play ground full of kids( who had to run out of the way) without slowing down just to get to the suspect!

That is what I question, as well. He has no idea who will be waiting around the corner - it could be a person, or it could be a temporary dumpster someone is using that the person uses to dodge the car.

Back to the original issue. Nobody who runs from the police is innocent.

If you believe that cops are capable of excessive force, in particular the one who is after you, would YOU stand still and let him do what he wants with you? I'm not saying it's right, but given the excesses that some cops do go to, it's no wonder that people run from them.