Ya Can't Get Outta Da Way Fast Enough!!

[cabinetman]

Ran across this video: IT'S MORE THAN A REMINDER!!
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[MilDoc]

Ouch! I have yet to have a kickback on the TS, but thanks for the reminder.

[cabinetman]

Ouch! I have yet to have a kickback on the TS, but thanks for the reminder.

I haven't been so lucky. I guess depending on exposure levels, it's not "if", but "when".

It's a lot like shaving...you know you may cut yourself, but go ahead anyway.
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[dkerfoot]

This brings up a question for me. When I first got my tablesaw, I did lots of research on safety, including videos like this that clearly show that kickback throws the boards to the left of the table saw (well, actually to the side opposite the fence - depending on the setup).

Yet, just about everywhere I look, I am told to stand to the left of the saw.

The combination of these videos, combined with the right side power switch, have contributed to my being most comfortable working to the right side when ripping.

I should mention that I use a circular saw to rip sheet goods down to size so I am really never manhandling large, awkward boards.

So, I guess my questions is - am I missing something? If I am ripping a 6" x 4' board down to 4" wide, why would I want to be on the left side of it?

[ejs1097]

If I am ripping a 6" x 4' board down to 4" wide, why would I want to be on the left side of it?

Good question, I always wonder this also. I'm right handed, and guessing most people are, and find it uncomfortable ripping stock with my left hand. This means my body is behind the blade/slightly to the left when ripping with a right side fence. Of course cutting sheet goods or wide stock puts you to the right of the blade as the fence moves further to the right but ripping puts me in the line of fire.

[cabinetman]

Doug

I don't consciously stand on one side or the other. That's not always an option. For example, you can't rip a 4 x 8 sheet and stand on the right. I've had a 3 HP saw kick a whole 4 x 8 sheet back a good 8 feet. Kickbacks could be operator error. An experienced operator develops an acute sensitivity for sounds and feel. Even with experience it can happen. Can't tell you how many times I lifted sheets or lumber during cutting, straight up off the table sensing the inevitable. Then there are those times right out of the blue.

If standing on one side or another makes for an uncomfortable position, that may be contributory to operator error.
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[Slik Geek]

...kickback throws the boards to the left of the table saw (well, actually to the side opposite the fence - depending on the setup).

Yet, just about everywhere I look, I am told to stand to the left of the saw.

...why would I want to be on the left side of it?

Could it be that the "conventional wisdom" supposed that since it is the piece between the fence and the blade that is ejected backwards, the thinking was to get behind the non-trapped piece that won't fly backwards (on the side of the blade away from the fence)?

Looks like a good time to ignore conventional wisdom.

[ironhat]

I have only had two and was contacted by one. I was feeding with the right hand but since it was a 'simple' cut I didn't keep myself clear by standing to the left. The piece of ply was about 24" square and I was only taking off an inch when it rode up on the blade, pivoted and punched me in the gut with what had been the left side of the workpiece. Even my little Ridgid 3650 punched me hard enough to leave a 6" bruise. I kicked myself in the a** for quite a while for that stupid trick. That was 6 months ago and the other was 30 years ago. If I go another 29.5 years without another one I won't have much to worry about it!

[Russianwolf]

This brings up a question for me. When I first got my tablesaw, I did lots of research on safety, including videos like this that clearly show that kickback throws the boards to the left of the table saw (well, actually to the side opposite the fence - depending on the setup).

Yet, just about everywhere I look, I am told to stand to the left of the saw.

The combination of these videos, combined with the right side power switch, have contributed to my being most comfortable working to the right side when ripping.

I should mention that I use a circular saw to rip sheet goods down to size so I am really never manhandling large, awkward boards.

So, I guess my questions is - am I missing something? If I am ripping a 6" x 4' board down to 4" wide, why would I want to be on the left side of it?

It's a variable of where you place the fence. The reality is that on a right tilting blade the fence should usually be on the left side of the blade. This prevents the offcut from being trapped when you tilt the blade. On a straight cut, the piece isn't being trapped but the saw was designed more for the fence to be on the left. You want to put it on the right because you are right handed and it's more convenient that way.

The switches on most upper end saws is on the left. the reason being is that you want to be able to hit the switch with your off hand while maintaining control with your dominant hand. Why they moved the switch on lower end saws is beyond me, but some people move the switch back over to the left for more safety, or attach a kick plate so they don't need a hand at all.

[cwithboat]

Under the thread Short Rip Fence, Sarge g-47 discussed six safety measures for the table saw. The guy in the video used only one of those measures -standing out of the way. I can see no reason when viewing the video that the other five could not have been employed.

[JR]

videos like this that clearly show that kickback throws the boards to the left of the table saw (well, actually to the side opposite the fence - depending on the setup).

Yet, just about everywhere I look, I am told to stand to the left of the saw.

Well, you have to stand so that you can push the wood into the fence. That's the first thing necessary to avoid kickback. With the fence on the right, you stand to the left.

When kickback occurs, it's going mainly to the rear. If the operator had been standing in his normal position - behind and to the left - that board would have shot past him. If he had firm control, he might have been able to direct the board's trajectory somewhat (I have actually been able to do this).

As has been pointed out, there are other safety measures missing, notably a splitter and anti-kickback device.

I admit that I feel uncomfortable with the switch on the right. It means you have to cross the "line of fire" to turn off the power. At that point I try keep one hand firmly on the wood and avoid reaching down in such a way that my neck is right in front of the board!

JR

[cwithboat]

left side cutoff

Note that there are two articles under BT3#x00 Related Articles describing left side cutoff modifications. In the attached photo note the walnut bar running the width (and more) of the saw. A light touch on the bar from any position kills the motor. Works for the router as well. The bar is out of the way of normal operation of the saw and hence avoids accidental cutoff.
regards,
Charlie

[Slik Geek]

When kickback occurs, it's going mainly to the rear. If the operator had been standing in his normal position - behind and to the left - that board would have shot past him. If he had firm control, he might have been able to direct the board's trajectory somewhat (I have actually been able to do this).

I've had two instances of kickback (before I installed a Shark Guard). One I recall looking very similar to the video, where the blade spun the piece, causing the piece to pivot at the rear corner off the fence. This put a change in the direction from directly to the rear to left of the rear, as in the video.

The resulting piece had the same curving blade gouge that is pictured at 28 seconds in the video. It didn't hit me, but I don't recall where I was standing.

The other did hit me, and left a nasty bruise. It has been a long time ago, but I believe that the the piece had moved to the left somewhat before it hit me (based upon where I was standing and where it struck me).

Perhaps the difference in perception of kickback behavior is due to two types of "kickback". One is a climbing kick, where the piece is lifted over the top of the blade and spins over the top (as in the video), pushing off the fence as it rotates and thus gets thrown diagonally. The other is a straight kick, where the piece is just accelerated straight back because it is stuck between the blade and the fence (and the bottom of the projectile never goes over the top of the blade).

[Wood_workur]

I've had two instances of kickback (before I installed a Shark Guard). One I recall looking very similar to the video, where the blade spun the piece, causing the piece to pivot at the rear corner off the fence. This put a change in the direction from directly to the rear to left of the rear, as in the video.

The resulting piece had the same curving blade gouge that is pictured at 28 seconds in the video. It didn't hit me, but I don't recall where I was standing.

The other did hit me, and left a nasty bruise. It has been a long time ago, but I believe that the the piece had moved to the left somewhat before it hit me (based upon where I was standing and where it struck me).

Perhaps the difference in perception of kickback behavior is due to two types of "kickback". One is a climbing kick, where the piece is lifted over the top of the blade and spins over the top (as in the video), pushing off the fence as it rotates and thus gets thrown diagonally. The other is a straight kick, where the piece is just accelerated straight back because it is stuck between the blade and the fence (and the bottom of the projectile never goes over the top of the blade).

yes, and with a guard in place, a climbing kickback is almost impossible

Well, you have to stand so that you can push the wood into the fence. That's the first thing necessary to avoid kickback. With the fence on the right, you stand to the left.

When kickback occurs, it's going mainly to the rear. If the operator had been standing in his normal position - behind and to the left - that board would have shot past him. If he had firm control, he might have been able to direct the board's trajectory somewhat (I have actually been able to do this).

As has been pointed out, there are other safety measures missing, notably a splitter and anti-kickback device.

I admit that I feel uncomfortable with the switch on the right. It means you have to cross the "line of fire" to turn off the power. At that point I try keep one hand firmly on the wood and avoid reaching down in such a way that my neck is right in front of the board!

JR

with a proper guard, even without prowls, the kick back would always go back straight, so yes, if you are out of the way than you should be safe.

[andrew.r.w]

Interesting video. It was surprising how that chunk of wood flew. A smaller piece of wood could presumably travel even faster.

The first thing I noticed about this cut was the blade was too low. Next, he had no splitter. Finally, nobody would hold the work like that.

I'm not saying kick-backs are not a concern, but stupidity is a choice. Raise the blade, use the splitter, and command the wood with a firm hand and this won't happen.

FWIW, I don't use a guard, and I never made a cut with the pawls. I threw them away before I got the saw set up. I figure safety is not a piece of equipment, and pawls can be dangerous. Plus they scratch your wood.