Forum Rules Review Part II

[JR]

The 10-yo girls that frequent this site certainly have not contributed much to it as yet.

Actually, just about six months ago there was an event in which one of our members was sharing a thread with his daughter. The thread became inflamed by a newbie/flametard. One of our most respected members took the bait, made a post he regretted, and I'm sure embarassed the father and his daughter.

The fact that most of us are middle-aged males is no reason to relax one of our most important rules. Even within that demographic we have people of many ethnicities, religions, cultural backgrounds. The rules help us maintain respect for one another, even when the inevitable misunderstanding happens.

My 2c,
JR

[Uncle Cracker]

I didn't say anything about changing any rules. There are already enough words in my mouth without anybody putting more in there. I am simply pointing out that perhaps we should not, in our haste to be politically correct, lose focus of exactly who this forum is intended for. One "flametard" should not swing the balance one way or another, and neither should one 10-yo girl. And frankly, if I had a 10-yo girl, I would not take her to a sports bar, a poker game, or anyplace else that grown men collect to "talk shop". This forum is one of the most entertaining, useful, and respectful places on the net. I don't see how we could expect more than that from it, but too much pressure on the clamp, and the work is gonna crack.

[Black wallnut]

The 10-yo girls that frequent this site certainly have not contributed much to it as yet.

Perhaps you are missing my point. I am not saying that we have 10 y.o. girls that post. We do have, as many forums, usually more than twice the number of lurkers than posters at any given time. Do you know the age, race, gender, or nationality of the entire forum audience? Is it too hard to assume that it can contain 10 y.o. girls?

Sam Conder, our host has layed down the rules. They have not changed any since the first day this forum was uploaded. Sam has made it known that this should be considered a Family forum. If what a member is thinking of posting would likey offend people then it should not be posted. This for sure includes but is not limited to jokes containing sexual innuendo or graphic sexual content.

This forum is not a "Good-ole-boy" private club. Just take a moments pause and ask if the topic you are thinking of posting would likely result in sexual harrasment claims in a workplace setting it likey is not a good one for this forum. It has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has far more to do with acting with good manners and being respectful of Sam's house. We are all guests here. Sam has asked us to adhere to his code of conduct. If you do not agree with the "code" do not post.

[messmaker]

I agree with the effort to keep the forum clean without going to an all out police state. I do struggle with the line on The Bargain Alerts. I remember the discussion last fall had people on both sides of the fence. I will play by the rules but I would hate to not post something only to have it slip through the fingers of a member that wanted it due to his or her not knowing. I would like to bring up a few possible alerts and let me know what you think.

Craigslist
Regional but not national sale
Closeouts at the big box stores(may be 1 or all)
A good or great deal that is on the Woodnet Shop and Sell (I check in there as well)

[Uncle Cracker]

I think we all know that sometimes the letter of the rules can obscure the spirit of the rules. There has to be rules, but also practical interpretation. To think otherwise is unrealistic. There is practically nothing that can be said anytime that could not possibly be in dispute to somebody. If there was such subject matter, then it would not need to be said, anyway. All I'm saying here is that I have not seen anything run here that should be offensive to any reasonable person, even unintentionally, and certainly not anything blatant. If this forum seems to be a "den of iniquity" to anybody, then you must not get out much, because it's waaaay better than most, and shouldn't that be enough? If not, then you're not gonna get it the way you want it unless all forums and topics not specifically related to tools and woodworking are axed. You are not gonna have places like "around the coffee pot" or "bargain alerts" without a commensurate amount of subjective thinking, and the resulting differences of opinion and offense of sensibilities. This is, if I'm not mistaken, the very reason that political or religious discussions are verboten.

The axiom "If it ain't broke, don't fix it..." is fitting. This site is not broken, so I would urge that we lighten up and not try to fix it. That's all I'm sayin', and the last I will say. Peace.

[Stytooner]

In being more tolerant of others, we have to look at ourselves as well. I don't think anyone is really suggesting that any rules be changed, just that some better judgment needs to be used at times. This applies to all, myself included. No one has shattered any rules that I am aware of that are still here. I think the intent was simply a reminder to consider the content of what you post. I always do, no matter what forum it's on.

[4estgump]

Well i've been here long enough to get 2 birthday cards from BT. I am still concidered a newbie. But i can tell you i'm here every day. I am very happy with this site, it's the best i have ever been a member of. The best people are right here. All anyone has to think about, is if you would tell this joke to your child or not. DA! I love all the bargin alerts. I hate the spam. But you guys take care of that. All i'm saying is i love it here.
4est

[Anna]

Can we just have another break room where we don't allow our mothers-in-law and 10-year-old daughters to come in?

This is one of those slippery slope questions that has ruined several other forums. Uncle Cracker pretty much said it well, I think. Offensiveness is so subjective that someone will always get offended no matter what. The neat thing is that reading the forum threads is a voluntary activity. You have to actively click on a thread in order to read it. If you don't like it, then don't read it. And we really are not required to read every thread.

As a compromise, can we create a special icon or shorthand that translates to "Only those with intestinal fortitude may dare enter"? That way, we can readily identify a questionable joke/topic (which I'm guessing will make them instant hits instead) and parents can instruct the children to never ever click on those scary threads.

I don't post many off-color jokes (I did once, and I promptly disappeared for a couple weeks because I was sure I was going to be castigated, only to find out later about the coffee spraying, etc), and I do respect Sam's decision if he outright bans them. But you either ban them or you don't (the way religion and politics are banned). Leaving it to the poster to determine how bad it is is not going to work because we all have different standards and degrees of tolerance.

It is kind of weird, though, to be changing a great, dynamic community because of the presence of a hypothetical 10-year-old (who probably prefers a myriad of other social sites on the 'net over a woodworking forum where a bunch of geeky and not-so-geeky older people converge anyway).

Just my 2 cents.

[Stormbringer]

As long as we're talking about rules, may we also please have a mention of what is and is not appropriate for Bargain Alerts? The header for that section would seemingly make this clear, but some folks just don't get it.

I agree 100%. Since Larry didn't copy it, I will. Here's Sam's header he references:

"Bargain Alerts Use this forum to post info about a great bargain you have found on any woodworking related item."

What do all these recent posts about vacuums, tax software, gift cards, etc... have to do with woodworking? There are many of these types of posts. Not that I can't just ignore them, and it's no big deal to do just that, but that's what I have www.slickdeals.net and www.fatwallet.com for.

So, Mark, when you say "Sam Conder, our host has layed down the rules. They have not changed any since the first day this forum was uploaded" that's not exactly true unless the mods have missed all these posts. Again, my life will go on whether or not there are post's in Bargain Alerts about router bits or top soil. I'm just elaborating on Larry's point which is probably something that has crossed the minds of many of us. I know Cheeky has blown a blood vessel or two...and he's a slickdeals.net freak

Best regards,
Greg

[Black wallnut]

So, Mark, when you say "Sam Conder, our host has layed down the rules. They have not changed any since the first day this forum was uploaded" that's not exactly true unless the mods have missed all these posts. Again, my life will go on whether or not there are post's in Bargain Alerts about router bits or top soil. I'm just elaborating on Larry's point which is probably something that has crossed the minds of many of us. I know Cheeky has blown a blood vessel or two...and he's a slickdeals.net freak

Best regards,
Greg

Greg, the rules have not changed. I will admit the enforcement of the rules has not always been what the rules suggest that they would be. There are quite a few bargains that remain in place despite the fact that they have nothing to do with woodworking. I am not even sure that will change. I 'm just speaking for myself here and you will have to let the other Mods weigh in but I do not see my job as Admin to censure topics. If members wish to use the "report bad post" button then a decision on a particular topic will be rendered by the forum staff. As Admin I will likely uphold any decisions made by any of the Moderators. I respect their judgement as does Sam and Adele or they would not be mods. Yet, I must also assure everyone that if I find offensive material that clearly crosses the line it will vanish quickly, as does Spam. We the unpaid staff are posters first. All of us have woodworking in one form or another as our hobby. I also think we are a humble bunch and have respect for our fellow forum members and visitors. It is best IMHO to remind members of the rules in play with a sincere hope that most people having good intentions will voluntarily follow them.

[cabinetman]

Some of the controversy in this thread seems to be in part from my post in the "Bargain Alerts". So, I feel it necessary to address the issue. If a member replies to a thread and in some way or another overtly infers that it is not applicable, or makes a comment on a personal level criticizing the content, that behavior can do nothing but become confrontational. We might as well tell it like it is. A member found it necessary to question the thread, and quote the "rules". I was unaware that the "rules" were of narrow latitude. If we are to follow the rules, the proper sequence would have been to report my post, or notify a Mod, instead of replying directly to the post. This practice may dissuade new members from posting for fear of chastisement. I must say if I was out of order by posting that thread I'm very sorry. I think it was my first post in that forum. I consider it "splitting hairs" unnecessarily to suggest that it was out of order.


I actually thought by getting whatever information I could and getting pictures, and posting it may help someone else. It was a Saturday that I spent out with my wife, and I appreciated her patience with my diversion. At the time I didn't have the rules in front of me to determine if what I was doing, or would be doing fit the criteria of the rules exactly. Believe me, I would have enjoyed the day off more without photographing woodworking machinery. Maybe the title to the forum should be changed to "Possible Bargain Alerts", so members can make up their own minds on what is a bargain.

I do feel the members here have been their own watchdogs, and perpetrated a fun and enjoyable forum. We're all adults here (except for the 10 yo), so lets not act like children. actually we may have some members under the age of 18; I am certain we did in the past! BW
.

[jackellis]

I think all Mark is suggesting is a little restraint. I'm OK with that. I'm also OK with being called out if I infringe on the rules.

Getting wound up about stuff is what I do for a living.

[Rslaugh]

......
The axiom "If it ain't broke, don't fix it..." is fitting. This site is not broken, so I would urge that we lighten up and not try to fix it. That's all I'm sayin', and the last I will say. Peace.

I would suggest the reason it ain't broke and this forum is head and shoulders above any other that I use is that occasionally we do discuss it. I don't think Mark was trying to "fix" something as much as nudge things back into place a bit.

[Stormbringer]

I think all Mark is suggesting is a little restraint.

I don't think Mark was trying to "fix" something as much as nudge things back into place a bit.

Agreed. A reminder every now and again is all it takes. We're all guilty of needing one every now and then, right?....Well maybe not me but the rest of you are

Greg

[Alex Franke]

My thoughts, in case anyone is interested:

• This is a great gathering place -- everyone pretty much sticks to the rules.
• I've posted non-woodworking-related bargains in Around the Coffee Pot because they're not woodworking related.
• I don't mind the occasional off-topic post or thread.
• When things do get out of line, I think the mods are usually pretty good about handling it fairly and quickly.
• I've never really been offended by a post, but I have rolled my eyes or shaken my head in disbelief from time to time. But that's OK.
• 10 year old girls: Isn't there something else you'd rather be doing?
• Feedback? Does anyone really pay any attention to that? Besides, maybe negative feedback is appropriate from time to time. I think the goal would be to get more positive feedback than negative.

Just follow the rules, and if you're corrected or nudged in a different direction, then respect your mods and cooperate.