Digital music opinions needed

[jking]

Interesting discussion. I don't have a clue what most of it means, though. Maybe someone can clarify something for me in layman's terms. I have been thinking about getting an MP3 player & trying to decide which to buy. If you buy an iPod, do you have to buy your music through iTunes? Or can it come from other sources? I have asked this question of people I know & have gotten "yes" and "no". Also, does the music bought through iTunes play on other devices? For example, can I play it on my computer, put it on a CD & play it in the car, etc.

[leehljp]

"The ones fighting should sell NO DRM laden non freely encodable music (which means even the MP3 "standard"). The real ones who should be, and in some cases are, are the informed consumers who don't make their purchasing decisions based on the bunk marketing."

I think you are missing something here. You don't have to be a purist to open the industry to DRM Free music. Apple wants to make money selling songs and their iPod. And they are willing to let iTune songs play on other devices. However, it is the Music Industry that has been saying NO to DRM Free MP3s. Currently, somewhere in the 90% range of iTunes Store songs are not DRM Free, - NOT because Apple wants to keep the DRM but because the Music Industry is DEMANDING it. If Apple does not comply, they won't let Apple sell it.

Kind of Like Dell, HP, and Gateway 10 years ago - If these companies wanted to sell computers at all, they were not allowed by MS to sell ANY other OS. So the problem was, would they sell their computers with Windows or not sell computers at all. Gradually the market was cracked, MS labeled as being monopolistic and the government stepped in with anti-trust, allowing forms of Unix to be sold.

In the case with Apple and DRM music, Apple makes a small profit on each song and these songs do affect the iPod sales. Apple would prefer not to do DRM and are fighting for it but not at the point of cutting out all non DRM music sales. DRM on music download is the Music industry's doing, not MS, Not Apple.

What you are asking for is for them to shut down until they can make all music companies go DRM Free, which is unlikely. They can't force a company to offer DRM Free, and they (Apple) would be an idiot to shut down sales just to be a purist.

ONE OTHER frightening thing: Very Recently, the RIAA has declared that it is illegal to make a back up copy of a CD or even copy CDs to your own computer.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122800693.html
"the industry (RIAA) maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer."
This is where Universal and the RIAA are headed. So how does one get the music onto an iPod or Zune or Sony? According to the RIAA, you can't take it off of CDs and go through your computer. Somebody better start fighting this.

DRM - it is not Apple, it is not MS, it is the music industry.

[LinuxRandal]

Interesting discussion. I don't have a clue what most of it means, though. Maybe someone can clarify something for me in layman's terms. I have been thinking about getting an MP3 player & trying to decide which to buy. If you buy an iPod, do you have to buy your music through iTunes? Or can it come from other sources? I have asked this question of people I know & have gotten "yes" and "no". Also, does the music bought through iTunes play on other devices? For example, can I play it on my computer, put it on a CD & play it in the car, etc.

Maybe Hank can chime in more on on the Ipod itself, but from the one I have messed with (a friends to play with the interface), you can both download non DRM (digital restrictions management) songs to it, if it supports that format (MP3 for example, I don't think Ogg). From what I have heard (no first hand experience), you can rip your cd's to your collection with it, and burn to cds, but I don't know the limits (number of shared devices, times burned (compelation discs), etc). The NON DRM music bought on Itunes should play on other devices.

"The ones fighting should sell NO DRM laden non freely encodable music (which means even the MP3 "standard"). The real ones who should be, and in some cases are, are the informed consumers who don't make their purchasing decisions based on the bunk marketing."

I think you are missing something here. You don't have to be a purist to open the industry to DRM Free music. Apple wants to make money selling songs and their iPod. And they are willing to let iTune songs play on other devices. However, it is the Music Industry that has been saying NO to DRM Free MP3s. Currently, somewhere in the 90% range of iTunes Store songs are not DRM Free, - NOT because Apple wants to keep the DRM but because the Music Industry is DEMANDING it. If Apple does not comply, they won't let Apple sell it.

In the case with Apple and DRM music, Apple makes a small profit on each song and these songs do affect the iPod sales. Apple would prefer not to do DRM and are fighting for it but not at the point of cutting out all non DRM music sales. DRM on music download is the Music industry's doing, not MS, Not Apple.

What you are asking for is for them to shut down until they can make all music companies go DRM Free, which is unlikely. They can't force a company to offer DRM Free, and they (Apple) would be an idiot to shut down sales just to be a purist.

ONE OTHER frightening thing: Very Recently, the RIAA has declared that it is illegal to make a back up copy of a CD or even copy CDs to your own computer.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122800693.html
"the industry (RIAA) maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer."
This is where Universal and the RIAA are headed. So how does one get the music onto an iPod or Zune or Sony? According to the RIAA, you can't take it off of CDs and go through your computer. Somebody better start fighting this.

DRM - it is not Apple, it is not MS, it is the music industry.

I understand what your saying, but I think your giving a business a humanity trait. Apple only cares, because the customer cares, and without DRM, the customers will buy more. They are pushing, only because there IS a want for it. It strictly is about the $$$, not good intentions and "heart".
I think we will have to disagree on DRM being just the music industry, both them and the software industry have similar goals, of which a prime example that failed, is DIVX. They tried a PER USE DVD and that is what both the proprietary software industry and the RIAA would love. Make EVERYTHING a billable event/use.

The RIAA's court papers are interesting, and not entirely reported correctly. It is both frightening and exciting to know that they may very well be forcing the courts to decide DCMA, verses fair use, verses etc.... (deteething the bad parts of the laws). By what I read (your link requird a subscription, which I don't have), from several sources (one supposably was the article posted elsewhere) it stated that the RIAA said that ripping was illegal.
What I read elsewhere, in as close to English as I can get it (from following Groklaw and all the lawyers I have talked to and some I have worked for), it is a nuanced difference. The RIAA stated that the copying was unauthorized (but that has nothing to do with fair use, just a technical term for something that can set a precedent or objection), but the illegal part was placing it in a shared folder. Not the Ripping.

Dealing with Lawyers, the Police I both know well (and some relations), etc, I have a different view of things. By purchasing/accepting DRM, or selling it, makes one complicit. As customers, not consumers, we should NOT be.

[ChrisD]

I hate to disrupt the flow of good information here with a petty update : I installed Juice (formerly iPodder) on my laptop last night, started subscribing to my podcasts through it, got my shiny new BlackJack II (with Windows Mobile 6) today, and was able to successfully sync it with Windows Media Player on my laptop and get my podcasts.

I realized that I really listened more to podcasts than to music on my old iPod, so as long as I get them through Juice, WMP, and finally on my phone, I'm fine. As for buying music, I think I'll continue to use iTunes.

Thanks for the wealth of information and opinions you've shared here so far.

[jking]

Maybe Hank can chime in more on on the Ipod itself, but from the one I have messed with (a friends to play with the interface), you can both download non DRM (digital restrictions management) songs to it, if it supports that format (MP3 for example, I don't think Ogg). From what I have heard (no first hand experience), you can rip your cd's to your collection with it, and burn to cds, but I don't know the limits (number of shared devices, times burned (compelation discs), etc). The NON DRM music bought on Itunes should play on other devices.

So, non-DRM music bought on iTunes can play on other devices, but, DRM music can only be played on an iPod? Not on the computer itself?

[ChrisD]

JK,

DRM content bought from iTunes can be played on iTunes on the PC and on the iPod.

Chris