Any Wine Drinkers?

[dkerfoot]

They are wine drinkers, not wine snobs. I'd hope they'd drink it and appreciate the chance to try a NC wine while not comparing it to a California or French. Whenever I travel I try to sample a local beer. I judge it on its own merits, not how it compares to other beers.

As a former serious home brewer, let me point out a key difference. The local beers you enjoy, are almost certainly not brewed using local barley and hops.
Even if they were, with brewing it is about 50% ingredients and 50% skill of the brewer.

With wine, growing conditions are just about EVERYTHING. You can take a superb french grape and transplant it to NC or MI or NY or many of the other states that have reasonable wine industry and then have a master French Vintner pour his heart into making the best possible wine with those transplanted grapes and you have an excellent chance of ending up with Boone's Farm. (that isn't a compliment)

I'd ask if they like sweet wine. If the answer is yes, go ahead and buy them locally grown - they will probably like it. That isn't being a snob. I'd ask the same question: Do you like bitter beer? And if they wrinkle their nose and say no, I know not to get them a high quality craft beer. (Yes, there are some good sweet wines - but not many. Same thing with non-bitter beer and the question will nearly always help you make the appropriate choice. )

[JR]

They are wine drinkers, not wine snobs. I'd hope they'd drink it and appreciate the chance to try a NC wine while not comparing it to a California or French. Whenever I travel I try to sample a local beer. I judge it on its own merits, not how it compares to other beers.

Yabbut...

It's not really a question of snobbery. I'm also not trying to promote California wine in lieu of all others. But the plain fact is that if there is a decent NC table wine it is very closely held secret that will not be apparent to you or the people you are giving you gift to. The suggestions for a dessert wine from NC are good ones, though, and it is appropriate to say out loud "I'm told this is a good dessert wine." Those are words that any regular drinker of wines will understand, and nobody will be forced to smile when an ultrasweet riesling is paired with the duck.

I suggested a Napa Chardonnay of at least $15 because you will get a decent wine without having to know much. There are surely many good wines from other places, but without knowing what your local store has available, it's impossible to make a specific recommendation.

As mentioned by dkerfoot, it is an entirely different sitation from beer. There is no joy in drinking a substandard wine.

JR

[Black wallnut]

Methinks that California Wines have great marketing. There are many other states that grow grapes and bottle good wine. Not once in this topic until now has anyone mentioned any Washington wines. Considering the number of successful wineries in my area of the world I'm thinking that Ca has nothing on us.

David my advice is buy a moderately priced local wine if that's what you want to give them. Chances are good IMHO that they will enjoy it. White or red, sweet or dry will not matter as much as that it has a cork and not a screw cap.

Doug..."locally grown hops" I will hazzard to guess that you are correct about micro beers not being made with locally produced grain and hops unless we are talking about E. Washington beers. Yakima County, WA has a lions share of the hop market, or atleast that's what the hop growers say.

[gsmittle]

Some Missouri wines are available nationwide. My personal favorite is Stone Hill Norton--a rich, dry red wine from Norton (they're called by another name too but I can't remember it) grapes. Try www.stonehillwinery.com for more info.

There are several wineries in the Hermann, MO area. Stone Hill is my personal favorite. Just about all the wineries in that area produce German-style wines--no French grapes here!

Dang, now I'm thirsty....

g.

[JR]

Methinks that California Wines have great marketing. There are many other states that grow grapes and bottle good wine. Not once in this topic until now has anyone mentioned any Washington wines. Considering the number of successful wineries in my area of the world I'm thinking that Ca has nothing on us.

Fair enough, Mark. I also didn't mention the Sonoma area (Dry Creek, Russian River, etc.), Paso Robles, Santa Ynez, Temecula, Santa Cruz. Nor Oregon. Wonderful wines are made in all these regions. But the brands I might recommend may not be available locally in NC.

The high level of quality in Napa wines is due to more than their good marketing. The high density of high-quality vintners drives goodness through competition. The only other areas I've been where there was a similar level of general goodness are Tuscany (the Chiantigiana) and Burgundy.

There are some very good wines in the Columbia Valley. There are hundreds of good wines in the Napa Valley, plus some great ones.

Maybe I should put it this way, David. If some loving, but uneducated person gave you a Harbor Freight plane for Christmas, you'd appreciate the thought, but might never let it touch fine wood. A Lie-Nielsen would get a different reaction from you. That's the difference between a NC wine and a Napa one (or Chianti Classico or Grand Cru). Does that make you a tool snob? No, just a sophisticate.

JR

[SARGE..g-47]

How about trying this brand out: Old Fart Wine. My father-in-law (younger than you) used to drink it and liked it. I just like the name. And this doesn't help the original question at all.

It's all in good fun.

Jim

Interesting... and I have never seen or heard of it. I will google the maker to see their site. The cardiologist said it just had to be red wine as white doesn't deliver the same "knock-out" punch in the scenario I spoke of.

But... you and I may to be a bit out of place in this thread as I was not aware of how serious a business purchasing a bottle of wine seems to be. Perhaps a "gift card" from the "fine wine" store allowing them to get what they prefer would be a better solution?

Glue-ups await "in the hole"...

[jziegler]

With wine, growing conditions are just about EVERYTHING. You can take a superb french grape and transplant it to NC or MI or NY or many of the other states that have reasonable wine industry and then have a master French Vintner pour his heart into making the best possible wine with those transplanted grapes and you have an excellent chance of ending up with Boone's Farm. (that isn't a compliment)

You need to look up Dr. Konstantin Frank's vinefera wine cellars. He was the first person to bring old world grapes to New York state, and makes fine wines. http://www.drfrankwines.com/ These wine have won many awards, and not just local ones. Although not a French winemaker, he is from Europe. It's now in the third generation of the family, and doing well. Your generalization (which is common) does a real disservice to the many fine, hardworking individuals in the smaller wine making areas. There are many great California wines, but also a lot of real duds (think of Sutter Home, not exactly great wine). CA produces about 90% of the wine in this country, so anywhere else doesn't get a fair chance for shelf space. Unfortuantely I can't help David with North Carolina wines, I don't know any and Wine for Dummies doesn't mention any.

Sorry for the rant, but being from the east coast, I want to see our more local wineries get a fair chance. I do like wines from all over, I've had some really good Washington State wines recently (I've been having good luck with Washington Hills and Columbia Crest)

David, if you find a good NC wine, let me know, and I'll see if I can find it.

Sarge, yeah a little out of place. As I said, I enjoy a good wine, but I never spend more than $20 on a bottle, and to spend more than $12-15 is very unusual, and I need to know I'm getting something REALLY good to go over that. I target $10 a bottle, and get some really good stuff for that price.

Jim

[crokett]

JR, I get what you are saying but I don't want to give them a NC wine because it is cheap, I want to do it because they are in Cincinatti and can't get one there. I would look for a good one. A rougher parallel to woodworking might be mesquite from Texas vs, say, curly cherry. Certainly the cherry is more valued by most woodworkers but I can't get the mesquite and would rather have some of that.

[dkerfoot]

Doug..."locally grown hops" I will hazard to guess that you are correct about micro beers not being made with locally produced grain and hops unless we are talking about E. Washington beers. Yakima County, WA has a lions share of the hop market, or at least that's what the hop growers say.

Yes, both Oregon and particularly Washington have the best domestic hops and you can tell from their names: Willamette, Cascade, Chinook, Mt. Hood... Typically they are a hybrid variation of the European "noble" hops. If cost and availability were no factor, most brewers would still reach for British Fuggles, German Hallertau Mittelfrueh or Czech Saaz rather than their American descendants (Willamette and Ultra).

I actually did brew a totally local Michigan beer once. A friend and I planted an acre of Barley. We grew it and then malted it (NOT an easy process!) Another friend was already growing hops. I did use cultured yeast rather than throw open the windows and hope some magic descended on the fermenter. It was a lot of fun and it was beer. Shortly thereafter I put in another order for my favorite British and German malted barley and hops.

I wasn't trying to say there are no "good" wines grown outside of California. But they are rare. A good friend owns one of the biggest wineries in Michigan. He is an extraordinarily intelligent guy who has dedicated his life to making the best wines possible. He works very, very hard. There are exceptions, but generally, his wines are not as good as Two Buck Chuck.

For the record, I have no great affection for California. I went to boot camp in San Diego and requested to be stationed anywhere but CA. I have lived in and loved Washington and the Carolinas. I like NC and upstate NY much more than CA. I live within 20 miles of three Michigan vineyards. Heck, I even attend a Vineyard church! But quite honestly, I'd rather drink out of just about any box coming from CA than all but a very few Special Reserve bottles coming from other states.

But of course, I don't even drink anymore, so you can probably write all this off as the ravings of a dry old crank.

It is Saturday morning. Time to go make some dust!

[JR]

JR, I get what you are saying but I don't want to give them a NC wine because it is cheap, I want to do it because they are in Cincinatti and can't get one there. I would look for a good one. A rougher parallel to woodworking might be mesquite from Texas vs, say, curly cherry. Certainly the cherry is more valued by most woodworkers but I can't get the mesquite and would rather have some of that.

Well, I checked my Wine Bible. No mention of North Carolina wines. Sorry, I couldn't find a proper reference for you, David.

[jackellis]

I've had "Two Buck Chuck" Once.

Some people think it's great. I don't care for it.

[Tom Slick]

I'm not going to get into the calif v. everywhere else arguement. it is more then marketing though.

two buck chuck is marketing at its finest. Its a name that Bronco owns and sells at trader joe's only, all other rumors about it are false but add to its mystique. it tastes ok but is made from the cheapest grapes available in calif's san joaquin valley, the exact same areas that gallo's grapes come from. somehow people turn their noses up at gallo but load cases of two buck chuck into the trunk of their mercedes.

bronco is the king of cheap wines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronco_Wine_Company